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On the Cali Pull Out

Noted that Cheaper Than Dirt joined the ranks of STI and Barrett Rifles by pulling out of California. They won’t sell ammo there anymore since Cali passed their ridiculous ammo ban. Now, I agree with the sentiment of not selling to Cali .gov agencies. However, is it really helping the cause to not sell your gunny wares to civilians? Discuss.

I tend to think we want to grow the gun culture there. I met a bunch of the Cali gun nuts at GBR4. And they are some of the most passionate people when it comes to their rights as I have ever met. David, Derek, Molly, and DirtCrashr and others do a lot for the pro-gun side.

28 Responses to “On the Cali Pull Out”

  1. Pete Says:

    I think CTD should cut off .gov sales, but I don’t agree with stopping all sales. Its just giving California what they want with this law, a decrease in availibility of guns and gun related products.

  2. Jairus Says:

    Is CTD banning ALL sales to California, or just ammo when the law kicks in in 2011?
    I’ve been to the CTD website and can’t find this policy.

    I don’t know what the rules are for CA residents purchasing ammo via mail order after this law is in effect. It may no longer be possible for CTD to sell ammo to civilians in CA.

    Most items one would buy from CTD are already illegal in CA anyway. I know most of the things we sell can not ship to Cali.

    Having said this, what is going to stop CA residents from making an ‘ammo run’ to Nevada, Oregon, etc, etc?? Must you register ammo imported to the State??

  3. Rivrdog Says:

    I doubt that CTD took their position without careful consideration. As that Bill wound it’s way though the corrupt Kali mill, numerous CA gunnies commented on how badly written it was, full of loopholes which could be used to trap the unwary.

    It is probably because the new law is so vague that CTD took their stance. CTD’s legal beagles probably saw too many nightmare scenarios.

    BTW, Jarius, almost all these misguided attempts at prohibitions result in some sort of black market developing, and that’s an historical fact.

  4. Jairus Says:

    Riverdog> You are oh so correct!!

  5. Skipelec Says:

    I would love to have a gun store in Yuma.

  6. Diogenes Says:

    I say “Good on ’em”. The best way to turn fence-sitters into activists is to let their duly elected representatives take something away from them. The Cali’s elected these idiots, let them pay the price. Somthing ’bout, “You made your bed…”

  7. workinwifdakids Says:

    Short answer: keep the pressure on, and don’t worry about us. We’re importing AR-15s and stripped lowers like there’s no tomorrow; if we figured out a way to legally build AR-15s and now AK-47s, we can surely find a way to get our hands on some ammunition.

    The people I’m talking to want the state government to live under the same laws they’re imposing on us. Make them personally feel the effects of the laws they’re passing. The only way to have that happen is to have Nancy Pelosi’s bodyguards in San Francisco tell her they can’t guarantee her safety here because of all the restrictions.

    PLEASE: encourage all manufacturers and vendors to cease importation and sales of all handgun ammunition to our government, and to cease sales of 10+ capacity magazines to state government, too.

  8. Thirdpower Says:

    Jairus: The announcement was made in their latest catalog. I confirmed it through one of their customer reps via e-mail.

    The way the bill is worded, they could be liable if ANY ammo related products, including speed loaders, magazines or stripper clips, are shipped to ‘prohibited persons’. This is beyond sending them a fax copy of your FOID card since you don’t need a license to own or purchase any of those things.
    What kind of database would be required? What kind of evidence would the CA courts accept as ‘reasonable’? What is the burden of proof? How much would CTD have to spend in legal fees?

    This is exactly what this law is designed to do. CTD and other ammo companies really have no other choice if they pay attention at all. CTD is going above and beyond by not selling to agencies as well.

  9. Drake Says:

    I have a cousin that lives in Baker. She and her hubby are moving out of that mess for economic reasons, but both are staunch second amendment supporters as well. She had an interesting take on it and compared it to a conservative democrat back here in the south. Sure, you can agree with their overall politics but the fact that they have Ds near their name still allows the nutjobs of that party to have control. In short, you may agree with Heath Shuler(for example) on guns and butter, but the fact he’s in power just adds another seat that puts Pelosi in power.

    I hate that law-abiding citizens in Cali are being put upon by their officials…and I hate it companies that withdraw from all business there will hurt the little guy, but then again…the little guy made the choice to live there. As Diogenes says, turn these comfortable fence-sitters into activists.

  10. Susu Says:

    The only legal way to sell ammo to CA residents after the law takes effect is to comply with the ridiculous law. Once the effective date of the law passes the only legal sales without marking the ammo would be to the government/law enforcement. CTD, STI & Barrett Rifles did the only thing they could do to protest the law.

  11. Spook45 Says:

    I dont think this is a political issue, I think it is a cost effectivness issue. If it is going to cost CTD more to be compliant than it is going make, then I wouldnt jump through that hoop either. As for the poor folks in Cali. if I lived there I would be bugging out as we speak(if i hadnt already) The simple truth is that they are so broke, I dont think they can enforce thier ban, and if EVERYONE who oowns a gun/guns starts packing up and LEAVING they(Cali Govt) will suffer much more by the loss of tax paying people going to other places. As much as I would love to see the Sierra Nevadas, and the other Mtns there, and thier great beaches, I will NEVER go there and spend money because I REFUSEto go to a state where I cant own and shoot my AK47. Screw Cali, pack up and get out NOW while you still have a choice in the matter. BUY MORE AMMO

  12. Crotalus Says:

    Pete, how, as an arms or ammo dealer, does one sell to the civilians but not the gov’t if the gov’t has banned a gun or ammo? Or are you talking about something like selling revolvers when a semi-auto ban is in effect?

    Spook, Ronnie Barrett made it very clear that it was political on his part. A San Bernardino Co. sheriff once told me that the department was considering buying some .50BMG rifles. Later, I asked how the sale was going, he said they had changed their mind. I asked who they had considered, and he told me, “Barrett”. I said, “You guys didn’t change your minds; Barrett told you to pound sand, because of that stupid .50 ban!”

  13. B Woodman Says:

    Even if the ammo catalogs were to not sell only to dot gov agencies, what’s not to stop some dot gov employee from running down to the corner gun shop and buying for his agency? Law and intent effectively bypassed.

  14. Linoge Says:

    From the cost-effective standpoint, I will not blame any company for not wanting to put up with excessively onerous and unwieldy laws. Sure, in the end, it is playing into the desired result of the law (i.e. the extinguishment of the shooting sports and private ownership of firearms in Kalifornistan), but such is life.

    From the political standpoint, citizens/residents get the government they ask for – those notable exceptions you point out may object, but they are, unfortunately, in the minority.

  15. Nate Says:

    I’m buying my next big ammo purchase from them just for that reason.

  16. Paul Says:

    Just have the California shooters drive to AZ or NV to get their ammo. Buy in bulk. Drive back with ‘farm seeds’ labeled boxes.

    For the rest of us non-Californians, we can just do our best to not allow those kind of stupid laws to be enacted.

    Hopefully soon California will implode due to taxes, jobs flight, and just plain bad economics.

  17. Burrow Owl Says:

    Drive back with farm seeds labeled boxes.

    If you do, choose your route carefully.
    Cali has agricultural check points along the highways leading into the state.

  18. DirtCrashr Says:

    “They” have already acknowledged that it will NOT be illegal for Californians to drive to AZ or NV or OR for ammo – that would violate interstate commerce laws – no phony “Farm Seed” boxes required. The law as written affects only certain sales-behavior in California – and obviously creates a hazard for CTD’s operations to comply with it.
    But certain basic problems at issue with this ill-conceived (and very poorly written) law will wreck it in court. It cannot stand much judicial scrutiny.
    Meanwhile we build lots and lots of AR’s on stripped lowers (and CA-Legal AKs also) and remain a huge Market for dealers – and many Gunnyfornians are learning to reload.
    Just don’t let stupid laws happen where you live. Hold their feet to the fire and keep-up YOUR Civics. The Rhino Governator signed this after advisement not-to, so he was preforming some kind of payback, it’s ALL political here… Our “civics” has gone to shit.

  19. USCitixen Says:

    I’m registered to transfer firearms via Cali FFLs. I’ll have to look deeper into the new regulations to see if mt ammo order policy has to be changed.

  20. Bubbaearle Says:

    Altho it’s not illegal to purchase ammo out of state, there will be some overzealous prosecutor that will try to charge someone making large volume purchases as bootleggers.

    If they can’t generate revenue via taxes they’ll generate via fines & court costs……however unjust.

    Look out for revenue agents watching the out of state ammo dealers – or at least the parking lots.

  21. daniels Says:

    Let me clarify our position a bit.

    Right now, we are selling ammunition to California.

    When the law takes effect in January 2011, we will cease ALL sales to California to any individual, agency, law enforcement or government body.

    It’s not that we wouldn’t love to continue selling ammunition, but the restrictions placed on us by the new law would make it impossible. For example: one of the mandates of the new legislation requires us to obtain fingerprints from the purchaser for each and every purchase. This is, of course, impossible to accomplish for our phone sales or internet sales. Based on our reading of the legislation, all internet and phone sales of ammunition will be illegal.

    Because of this, and various other restrictions this new law places on ammunition sales, Cheaper Than Dirt! has made the decision to cease all ammunition sales to any individual as well as all law enforcement agencies.

  22. workinwifdakids Says:

    Daniel, if you’re still following this, how do we (Californians) get others to follow the lead you and Barrett have set out? How do we get others to cut off the CA state government?

  23. Rob Says:

    Former Californian here. Emphasis on FORMER. Born/raised/lived in Fresno for 25 years before leaving in 1993. I am not concerned one bit about the outcome to CA residents if companies restrict ammo/firearms sales in their state. CA residents elected the fools that enacted the draconian gun/ammo laws there. You get the government you deserve. If CA residents feel oppressed or deprived of their Liberties (2nd Amendment or other Liberties), they should clean house and send freedom/liberty minded state respresentatives / senators to Sacramento instead statists. That goes for the governator, too!

    I applaud the companies that have made the difficult decision to say that “enough is enough” regarding these stupid laws and refusing to continue doing business under such ridiculous terms. It just might be what is necessary to get more citizens affected by such nonsense to finally take some action to resurrect/preserve their liberty instead sitting around hoping someone else will do it for them. A few, dedicated Liberty loving die-hards cannot do it all. It’s time to get off the bench and into the game in CA if it is to be saved from tyranny.

    And if you feel it can’t be changed from within, move to a state that suits you better. You have a choice where you live. Sure no state is perfect, but almost all are better with a few exceptions. CA is in the crapper and a reversal of its many misfortunes is a futile quest in my lowly opinion. I would like to be proven wrong on this, but am doubtful.

    Not trying to start a comments battle with anyone (from CA or elsewhere), just tossing out my thoughts on the subject.

    Good Luck, Golden State!

  24. Davidwhitewolf Says:

    Assuming McDonald goes the right way this year, I’m quite confident the Calguns Foundation and its attorneys will have this law declared unconstitutional before it ever goes into effect. We need the win in McDonald first, though.

  25. DirtCrashr Says:

    Rob – That might be true to a certain extent and there’s no doubt that Sacramento is a completely f*ked up cesspit of dealmaking whores – but you do know the districts have been gerrymandered and secure to Democrats since 2000, so Assembly carpetbaggers can get re-elected by a minority of (for example) San Franciscans (who dominate that small district), while the rest of us on the Peninsula have no say in the matter. (52-yr resident/property owner caught in the meltdown.)

  26. Rob Says:

    DirtCrashr – You and others like you have my sympathies. I still have family and many friends living in CA. Unfortunately, the corrupt CA state govt is taking down many good, honest, freedom loving people into the toilet. The land of milk and honey is more like the land of sour milk and moldy honey these days. It is hard to believe that Reagan was once governor of CA.

    I wish I could be more optimistic about CA’s outlook, but it appears to be in a fatal downward spiral in more ways than one. And much of the damage is self-inflicted…

  27. daniels Says:

    workinwifdakids – DavidWhiteWolf is right – part of the reason this may be repealed is not from some Assembly action, but more likely from the courts finding it unconstitutional.

    That being said, it is always a good idea to contact your State representative and let them know your position.

    As for getting others to follow our lead – emails and letter writing campaigns DO actually get attention at companies. Contact customer service departments and ask for a statement on their position regarding the Cali Ammunition Ban.

  28. DirtCrashr Says:

    Rob, I wish I could be more optimistic too. 🙁 My bro’ DavidWhiteWolf has lawz-stuff and knows the shnizz, that being said contact with a Prince (or Princess) of Socialism, hiding behind tall and secure gerrymandered walls is sometimes like waving a distant flag across a far meadow – or shaking your fist with a raised digit. Every response I have received from my “representative” has been twisted-back by their office toadies to read as something quite other than what I intended it to mean.

Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.

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