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Shooting Rampage Stats

This is not surprising with the police strategy of containment and not engaging:

The average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police is 14.3

The average number of people killed in a mass shooting when stopped by a civilian is 2.3.

Seems consistent with what I’ve noted.

24 Responses to “Shooting Rampage Stats”

  1. Bubblehead Les Says:

    Just P.O.d a LEO friend of mine last week when I told him that any Police Policy where the Cops have to set up a Perimeter and wait for SWAT to show up while the Cops are hearing Shots being fired is B.S.

    It’s one thing where there’s a Hostage Situation going on, and one can talk with the Goblin. But when you hear BANG and Screaming, sorry, but if one has a Gun, engage.

    BTW, that’s one reason the Judge did NOT charge me with a Crime when I shot at my Goblin. Hizzoner wasn’t happy to hear that the 2 LEO’s in the First Patrol Car had the Perp covered, but they were waiting on Back Up.

    And Waiting. And Waiting. And Waiting.

  2. HL Says:

    Officer safety comes firt…the childrens’ second.

  3. Dann in Ohio Says:

    As a former LEO, I’ve always said… Police and fire are typically the second responders, YOU are the first responder…

    Dann in Ohio

  4. Bram Says:

    But, but – what if civilians start shooting each other? Or, if the shooter takes the civilians’ guns and really goes crazy?

  5. Chas Says:

    CNN has an article up called, “5 Things Gun Owners Want You to Know”.
    It concludes with this:

    “Perhaps. But more likely, it’s wishful thinking to believe “you could have stopped the whole thing, if only you had been there with your .38.” said Grayson Cash, an airline pilot who owned his first gun at 13 years old.

    “As someone who has some firearm and self-defense training, I find it laughable to think that the average Joe, in a dark theater filled with teargas, could take out a well armed and armored assailant with a five-round .38 special,” he said. “Arming more people will only eventually end in an accidental death.”

    – They prefer to use the carefully selected opinion of one individual that supports their anti-gun agenda rather than look at the facts.

  6. HL Says:

    But, but – what if civilians start shooting each other? Or, if the shooter takes the civilians’ guns and really goes crazy?

    I am told this happens a great deal…most of the time, in fact.

  7. HL Says:

    “Arming more people will only eventually end in an accidental death.”

    To the Left, one accidental death casued by a “do-gooder” is not worth stopping even 10 “deliberate deaths” caused by a goblin.

    Unless we are talking about implementing their ideas…where sometimes “you have to break a few eggs…”

  8. ATLien Says:

    It seems this is the one instance where the police seem concerned with shooting the wrong person. At your house dressed with his friends like a ninja, the cops aren’t so shy about it.

  9. Kristopher Says:

    Bubblehead: Yea some LEOs get screaming mad when you point this out as institutional cowardice.

    I had a Aurora cop try to get medieval on me for calling it that:

    Instead of addressing the problem, he coughed up one dumbassed insult after another.

  10. Huck Says:

    Kristopher, that’s because the truth hurts.

  11. Zermoid Says:

    Personally I think all the cops who stood by and did nothing should be charged with being accomplices to murder, because they allowed it to happen!

    Or were they told to not intervene by the feds who set this slaughter up?

  12. Kristopher Says:


    You do what you are trained to do when the shit hits the fan.

    Culpability rests with whoever thought perimeter/wait-for-SWAT was a good idea.

  13. GunnieKev Says:

    I just took it to mean the armed civilian is already there, but the po-po has to get there first.

  14. Bram Says:

    GunnieKev – Not only does it take time for the police to get there. Then they have to figure out what the hell is happening, then act accordingly. It is massive advantage to have somebody there from the start.

  15. GunnieKev Says:

    Bram – agreed.

  16. Mike V. Says:

    Actually, for many agencies, doctrine now for active shooters is to not wait. Enter, find ’em, and either take them or pin them down til the calvary arrives (As in the NC Nursing Home shootout).

    As I understand it, becauce the way the criminal was dressed, it took them a moment to realize he was the bad guy and not a cop. In most cases, they are over before the cops arrive.

    As a cop for over 37 years, I agree there is no excuse for waiting.

  17. Old NFO Says:

    THey want to go home at night, so they wait… And in MANY places, that is now the policy; wait until a supervisor and SWAT get there, do NOTHING by yourself.

  18. Earl Says:

    The containment of the site, waiting for back up or SWAT is wrong;especially once shots are fired. It was like: the pilot’s duty on the aircraft was to land the aircraft and then allow law enforcement to negotiate or Special Ops into the aircraft and into control of the terrorist/hijackers. Which only works if it isn’t a suicide mission. Now we are ready to shoot the aircraft down… but not allow people to carry their own protective tools… they aren’t special enough. Our answers are often so limited by fears so foolish.

  19. paul B Says:

    Police and Soldier have a different mentality that is trained into them. Soldiers are trained to sacrifice self for the team. Police are the team and you are trained to witness and report.

    They are beginning to do active shooter drills at the police level, but that does not change the basic premise. Police are observers first and foremost.

    If you are a sheepdog, or one of the grey men, you will engage the active shooter.

    If you are not, you won’t.

  20. Kristopher Says:

    Mike V.: That’s cavalry, not Calvary.

    If you wait for Calvary, you may be there a while.

  21. stled Says:

    Remember June 4th in Aurora, Co.

  22. PawPaw Says:

    Our agency’s policy is to aggressively close with and engage an active shooter. We don’t wait for backup, we don’t establish a perimeter. We either run him to ground, or we kill him. That’s the policy. Our focus is on stopping the shooter. If he can be stopped, that’s what we do and it’s incumbent on the first officer on scene to initiate the response.

    The rules are changing within many agencies on active shooters, and I think that we’re moving in the right direction.

  23. Ritchie Says:

    The only criticism I would offer is to note that the police are in fact civilians, even if they do have all that cast-off .mil equipment.

  24. Kristopher Says:

    Another active shooter, this time at a Sikh temple:

    Looks like the first responding cop went straight at the shooter and shut him down. And got shot up himself in the process.

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