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Trigger Happy

Robb is loving his new trigger. The comments then turn into a discussion of whether or not a M&P with a Forward Set Sear is appropriate for carrying. The conversation expands here where Robb makes his case for carrying it.

For now, I’m undecided mostly because I’ve never shot an M&P with that trigger but I’ve heard it compared to a 1911 style trigger. And Robb’s M&P lacks a manual safety. In theory, I’m on Robb’s side since, if you don’t press the bang switch, it shouldn’t make a boom. But one of the couple of handfuls of people whose advice I actually take on guns says she’s not a fan.

Thoughts?

Update: wrong second link before. fixed.

21 Responses to “Trigger Happy”

  1. Tam Says:

    Hey, it’s just not in my risk envelope. If it’s in yours, that’s fine. Some people BASE jump, too.

    (Personally, on a pistol, especially a defensive pistol, over the years I’ve worried less about the magic trigger. Too many people try to make up for bad shooting with a magic trigger. When I see guys in gun school rocking the house with factory-stock or mostly-stock triggers, I want to learn to shoot like that, and I don’t want to need training wheels to do it.)

  2. Gerry Says:

    On target, on trigger, I don’t see a problem.
    On something, on trigger could be a big problem.

  3. andy Says:

    I have the Apex trigger kit installed in mine. At 2.8lbs there is no way I using it for anything other than competition. Robb just needs to biet the bullet and buy another M&P, one to carry and one for competition. Trying to use a competition gun for carry is stupid, and trying to be competitive with a carry gun is falls on the stupid side of the fence.

  4. Jerry Says:

    What she said.

  5. SayUncle Says:

    Andy, he left the other springs in and it is at 5 pounds or so.

  6. Robb Allen Says:

    Well, looks like Andy went to the Paul Helsinki School of Tact, but I’ll still respond.

    One, I don’t have a 2.8lb trigger, I have a 5# trigger.

    Two, I don’t compete to win first place, I compete to practice having to draw my pistol and move while I shoot. Since I’m not attempting to become a Grand Master, 5 Gun Sensei, ISO 9000 Certified Operator, I’m more interested in using a real gun that can be used in real life so that, come time to use it, I’m not mentally unprepared for a particular set up.

    Three, you might notice that while I don’t agree with Tam, I’m not calling her a idiot. Just a tip for commenting on the interweb tubes. It helps when you don’t want people to dismiss you outright for being.. well.. you know.

    Finally, I’m not getting a new trigger because it helps me shoot better, I’m getting this one because I like the way it feels much better than the mushy one that came with the pistol. I mean, I’m sure those guys at Tactischool run virgin pistols, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t swap out backstraps that are more comfortable for me.

  7. Joe Huffman Says:

    @Andy, I use the same gun for carry and competition. It is an STI Eagle chambered in .40 S&W. This is one of the most popular pistols ever in USPSA competition.

    I’ve been doing that for over 10 years. I don’t see the problem.

    Would you care to elaborate?

  8. Alan Says:

    I too compete with my carry gun, a plain XD that is factory original except for the sights.

  9. Disavowed With Honor Says:

    Folks,

    With all due respect and courtesy to both sides here… This is what I am seeing/reading.

    Side #1: “I like apples because oranges suck”

    Side #2: “I like oranges because apples suck”

    Both can keep you alive, both taste good given your particular styles and tastes.

    Both work, given the user.

    The hardest thing to learn when educating others is the balance between what is safe and what is preferred. In other words… as long as it is safe by design and by use the rest is all about taste. When I tought others I used a very statement. “This is not THE way, but rather A way of using this.”

    If you like it, it works for you and your style, AND it’s safe then it works for you. If not, then go find something that does. Some folks like .45 and some 9mm. Doesn’t make any one better than the other.

    Don’t confuse what you prefer with being the best for everyone else. If you support that concept then think of it from this perspective… Joan Peterson would prefer you didn’t have a gun to defend yourself with because that’s what she thinks is best for everyone else.

    Disavowed With Honor

  10. Gerry Says:

    Note to self, no Christmas card next year for andy for calling me stupid.

    ( Shoot my stock G17 or G19 in games and carry the G19. I did shoot an M&P Pro with the whole Apex up grade, but found I still shoot the Glocks for better scores.)

    I did think the Apex upgrades made the M&P Pro 9 a better for stupid old me but other issues with S&W had me trade it in. Your mileage may vary.

  11. JDS Says:

    What works for Rob, works for Rob. Unless he goes Tex Grebner on us, I say more power to him. My brother in law has been carrying a G27 with a 3.5# trigger for the past 5 years. He competes with it, for the reasons Alan and Joe listed, and still hasn’t shot himself in the leg.

    Would I carry Robb’s or my BIL’s gun? No. I prefer DA/SA pistols, and I’m sure someone out there thinks I’m an idiot for carrying an antiquated hunk of iron. I’ll defer to Markos, whom I believe succinctly killed these type of arguments, like, four years ago: http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/my-sidearm/

  12. MattW Says:

    Alan, what kind of sights did you use to replace the factory sights? I am trying to decide and what sights to use on my XD and am having a fit of indecisiveness.

  13. MattW Says:

    Nevermind Alan, I actually kept sitting on my lazy ass but made the effort to click through and search your blog. And sorry for the attempted thread hijack

  14. Old NFO Says:

    All I’m gonna say is, to each his own… 🙂

  15. Robb Allen Says:

    Well, yes. To each their own and I mentioned that in my posting that to some, their “risk stack” is piled up one way while another isn’t.

    I understand Tam’s point. Maybe it’s because I’m overly sensitive to it, but since I cut my teeth on carrying handguns with a Glock, I have this habit of indexing my finger on the side of the Windex bottle. That’s not a joke, by the way. My daughters bought me a Nerf revolver for Christmas so I could play shoot-em-up games with them (they have the same one I do). I find myself unconsciously removing my finger from the trigger guard when I’m not actively shooting.

    It will be interesting to see how my scoring does with the new trigger. There could be an issue, as Tam mentions, about setting off rounds early before I’m ready, but so far my dry firing sessions seem to indicate that won’t be something to worry about. Time will tell.

  16. Bubblehead Les Says:

    Some of us Old Farts remember that some Anti-Gun D.A.s would use the fact that Trigger Work was done on Carry Pistols was PROOF that the Gun Owner was an Evil Monster just looking for a Gun Fight. But Mas Ayoob and others won enough court cases by stating that the easier it is for someone to hit their target, the safer it is for the General Public. The less shots fired during an altercation (as long as the Bullet hits the Goblin and stops the Threat) is a Good Thing. And there’s enough Case Law out there that most D.A.s don’t use that attack anymore.

    But this faulty line of thinking led to the Glock New York Trigger, and the 3rd Gen Smiths having DAO Trigger Pulls “Just like a Revolver” (10 Pounds+).

    The Big Gun Companies went along, because they were tired of being Sued because of their Triggers, which is why Apex is making a lot of money.

    So if you want to modify your triggers, it’s your gun. Just remember the 4 Rules and be safe.

  17. JAG2955 Says:

    Like I said last week, I’ve got one with the Apex trigger, and wouldn’t hesitate to carry it. Do we have qualms with the weight, or the trigger travel? Anyways, relevant article from everyone’s favorite Anarchangel:
    http://www.anarchangel.blogspot.com/2011/12/firearms-mythbusting-part-i-cant.html

  18. Bryan S. Says:

    Ive heard the old shooters tale 9usually, they have old wives) that DAs will throw the book at you extra hard for having a lighter trigger or hand loads. But I havent ever seen it happen.

    granted, i would be very interested to read about these, but , not seen it past internet and gunshop rumor.

  19. Tam Says:

    Robb,

    …since I cut my teeth on carrying handguns with a Glock, I have this habit of indexing my finger on the side of the Windex bottle.

    Me, too, FWIW.

    I’d carried Glocks for nearly a decade before I went to 1911s in ’02, and then back to striker-fired plastic last September. Just a data point. 🙂

  20. JScottNH Says:

    Always get a kick out of the Glock New York Trigger… What PD has the worst record for N.D.’s (Both for bad handling and also tops the list for shooting innocent bystanders)? And has placed the Kahr trigger system on “review”? Blomberg’s “Army”…..

  21. NavyDoc Says:

    I find the fixation on exactly how many pounds of trigger pull a pistol has to be a bit amusing because people seem to forget that there are other variables at play: grip strength and size of the hand.

    I am 6’1″, 190 pounds and i don’t have any issues with a heavier trigger or longer travel. However, my fiance is 5’2″ and she lacks the finger strength to accurately shoot some of my heavier trigger guns. For her carry gun she carries a Kahr K9 Elite (the same gun that Bloomberg’s Army has declared “unsafe”) and we still had to have some trigger work done on it so that she could shoot it accurately. But, I wouldn’t personally carry that gun now because the trigger is so light and has so little travel I tend to touch it off before I truly mean to at the range (still pointing downrange at the target, just before I’ve fine-tuned the sight picture).

    I could potentially see a situation where I’ve drawn down on a bad guy, (let’s say he has a knife and is 20 feet away) I’m ready to shoot with finger on the trigger, but he hasn’t crossed “the line” of moving towards me. I’d hate to send him to the afterlife before I’m prepared to do so.