Change my mind
Via Tam, comes this: Three Essential Firearms for Civil Unrest. As to the choices:
Springfield Armory M1A .308: Wrong platform, wrong caliber.
Benelli M4 Tactical 12 gauge semi-auto: Right platform, right caliber.
Glock Model 20 10mm: Right platform, wrong caliber.
November 11th, 2019 at 4:23 pm
I like all those choices. Those would not be my choices.
November 11th, 2019 at 4:44 pm
I personally prefer a pump action since it can run different ammo types reliably, including less lethal and reduced recoil.
15 rounds of 10mm is formidable for a concealable pistol, and barrel swaps get you 40 and 357 Sig with the same mags — it’s an interesting option.
But the M1A? I can’t think of a single good reason to have one.
November 11th, 2019 at 5:33 pm
Those 3 choices mentioned dont interest me.
I prefer good ‘ol reliable shooters. I have a Fulton Armory M1 Service Carbine, a Ruger Gunsite Scout bolt action rifle in .308, and a Marlin 1895G lever action in .45-70, (pre-Remlin) for rifles.
A Smith and Wesson Model 10 in .38 Special +P and a Ed Brown Cobra Carry in .45 Auto (M1911 with a 4 1/4 inch barrel) for handguns. I don’t have a scattergun because I see no reason to have one when one has a rifle.
November 11th, 2019 at 7:58 pm
The guns will be defined from where you fight. Not the same to defend uncle pat’s farm than House in Suburbia or apartment in the city. Type of Construction will also be important? Brick or wood?
You wanna lug an M-1? Hope you have the energy. You need something in .30 caliber? Go AK. Pistols in plastic fantastic (or Beretta) and in 9mm.
Shotguns: Go traditional and the new non-NFA shorties
November 11th, 2019 at 10:03 pm
All good guns and good calibers…are there bad ones?
The thing to remember about the SHTF is that it will not be just a one-shot (heh) deal. So as has been discussed here before, my choices are driven by both efficacy and ubiquity…
5.56 or 7.62 for the rifle; the rounds are available everywhere and you probably already have a case or three, and the launching platforms are proven and largely trouble-free.
A good pump 12 gauge in riot length and capacity is hard to beat up close, and again with the ammo anywhere thing. I do prefer a pump for its functional advantage to SA.
And can there be any debate about the damn near infallibility of the Glocks and clones? Feed them with 9 and be damn sure that everybody everywhere will have the food to feed it.
And of course the added category of rimfire, gotta have a 10/22 or two and plenty of ammo; if you do run out it is everywhere and it is cheap. Push come to shove you can do everything you have to do with .22 lr.
Then God forbid if it comes to a shooting war of the internecine type and an interminable length, you’ll be ready…at least shooting wise.
November 11th, 2019 at 10:05 pm
Anything that loads commonly available and/or military ammunition.
Rifle — AR15, although I love me some HK91 (.308).
Pistol — Glock 19, HK Compact .45, SigSauer P-series, or Springfield XD in .45 ACP.
Shotgun — Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge.
Just an opinion and we know what they’re like.
November 11th, 2019 at 10:30 pm
I, for one, will avoid the caliber/platform discussion and state unequivocally that I wanna be on the side of the people like Tam if/when the civil unrest comes, because I damn sure don’t want to be a target in her sights.
November 11th, 2019 at 11:14 pm
Meh, I tried to read it but quit at “there’s no such thing as an ‘assault rifle'”
Yes, there is. Author is confused with the new speak “assault weapon”? Probably, but I don’t care to get scolded by someone that confused.
November 12th, 2019 at 2:09 am
My choices:
Glock 19
KRISS Vector SBR in 9mm
AR-15 SBR in 300 Blackout
I would also want a .22 for game.
All with suppressors and subsonic ammunition.
I also already own these weapons and have taken many classes with them.
November 12th, 2019 at 3:58 am
Damn the M1A caught flack!
My lineup:
M1A .308
Glock 34 9mm
Winchester 1300 12ga
Don’t know why, but America’s preferred sporting weapon fits me poorly.
I’ve owned 100’s of firearms, these are my go-toes.
Also ruger and colt target .22, 10/22, mini 30, thompson, and ??? beretta .25.
thompsons i’ve shot are crazy accurate.
November 12th, 2019 at 5:28 am
Whatever.
If it feels good, shoots good and hits where one aims, well, just do it.
I’ll just throw the .22 WMR into the hat of above preferences.
November 12th, 2019 at 7:37 am
Always go with common calibers you can find laying around somewhere. The rest of the specs are unnecessary.
– Any reliable AR-15 platform rifle
– Any reliable 12 gauge shotgun
– Any reliable 9mm pistol
Anything else and you’re overthinking it.
November 12th, 2019 at 11:54 am
Yep, as we’ve said, what works and is most available has to drive the choices for this scenario. Related and also important is cost…lowest cost on lucky gunner is 280/1000 for AK pellets, and 180/1000 for AR15 stuff. It won’t matter in the heat of things but .10 a round difference is a lot for them that shoots a lot otherwise. Same and even more so for 9mm vs 10 or .45 (didn’t mention .40 because who TF wants one of those?). The gauges too prove that volume drives price as 12 is a bargain compared to littler ones, and of course it’s everywhere.
As I said upthread I like all guns and all chamberings, but for the purpose specified here and the logic/reasons stated, it’d be hard to disagree with these choices.
November 12th, 2019 at 12:33 pm
M1A is a formidable weapon, accurate and powerful. It makes most cover mere concealment. Also it “flies under the radar” with its conventional appearance and typically ships with a 10 rd mag. The Marine Honor Guard carry them at The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The current House AWB has scores of guns they want to ban, but the M1A is not among them.
November 12th, 2019 at 6:35 pm
The 3rd Infantry, an Army unit, provides the Tomb Guards. Presumably a slip of the keyboard, but an important one.
https://www.oldguard.mdw.army.mil/specialty-platoons/tomb-of-the-unknown
Additionally they are armed with actual M14 rifles, not a civilian facsimile thereof.
November 13th, 2019 at 12:58 am
Yes, the guard have M14s…. Because they look pretty. They were the shortest lived general issue service rifle for good reason.
November 13th, 2019 at 7:02 am
Before my horrible maritime incident out over the Marianas Trench, I would have picked an AR clone in 5.56/.223
A Remington 870 riot gun in 12 ga.
A Glock 17/19 and maybe a S&W M&P in .40 S&W
November 13th, 2019 at 10:30 am
@SPQR, yes, I know they’re M14’s that the Honor Guards carry. But in appearance, except for bayonets, they look exactly like the M1A which doesn’t have select-fire (full auto) feature.
November 13th, 2019 at 11:27 am
This post has a collection of the issues of M14: http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/
November 15th, 2019 at 5:46 pm
“Life After Doomsday”
Survival guide to nuclear war and other major disasters
Author: Bruce D. Clayton, pHD
1980, Dial Press, ISBN 0-8037-4752-7
In the book, the ‘Great Survival Gun Guru’ Mel Tappen recommended:
– HK-91 (.308 Winchester / 7.62 NATO)
– Armalite AR-180 (.223 Remington / 5.56 NATO)
– Remington 870 Pump Shotgun w/Fold Stock (12 gauge)
– Colt Commander (.45)
– Accessories
Dr. Clayton’s book is truly a ‘bible’ of prepping, with every conceivable survival issue covered. I cannot stress more strongly that everyone should get a copy. pdf versions are available now for free over the Internet.
In many respects, ‘great minds think alike’, and, different defense scenarios require different defenses. Yet, frankly, anything in the way of arms is better to have than nothing at all.
November 15th, 2019 at 10:45 pm
I dropped this PSA link on another post too, but it surely fits this thread and my particular methods. Hard to beat for that money even if you don’t “need” it.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/glock-19-gen-3-talo-exclusive-9mm-pistol-black-g1915us.html?trk_msg=O51N01L82H74R47G132763VPVO&trk_contact=708PRE2AJDSAD5RGN8EI3NDQ4S&trk_sid=7SO9PFOAEGHO503BL3E0CTAANS&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fpalmettostatearmory.com%2fglock-19-gen-3-talo-exclusive-9mm-pistol-black-g1915us.html&utm_campaign=Daily+Deal&utm_content=12%3a00+Email
November 15th, 2019 at 10:56 pm
ExpatNJ, I enjoy reading my copy of Tappan’s Survival Guns but its for nostalgia only. Its advice is 40 years old and quite obsolete. Good luck finding an AR180 today or magazines for it.
November 16th, 2019 at 9:09 am
The leftists and deep state agents in government want all our guns to be “obselete”. They want to take from us what they have and keep for themselves. It’s what criminals do.