Texas Department of Public Safety suspends use of Smith and Wesson M&P
They don’t like the Kool-Aid.
Seems there’s an issue they’re having:
The agency decided to halt the use of the new handguns after a couple of the weapons experienced slight movement of less than 10 microns after repeated firing of about 3,000 rounds, Vinger said. A micron is one-millionth of a meter. Movement in a gun could affect accuracy. There were also bullet “feeding and ejection” issues. None of the performance issues resulted in any injuries. And so far, DPS has not been able to replicate these issues in subsequent testing, Vinger said.
I have no idea what that means. Slight movement of what? And I’m guessing ammo or training issues.
April 22nd, 2014 at 11:17 am
Perhaps they meant “sight movement”? No one wants the sights moving on their own but I also have never measured their position in microns. I’m curious what the real story is.
April 22nd, 2014 at 12:06 pm
When I go the the range, frequently my best shot is my first.
I wish my movement after that shot was just a micron or 2.
April 22nd, 2014 at 12:11 pm
What are they worried about? That the cops might miss and accidentally hit a criminal instead of an innocent bystander?
April 22nd, 2014 at 12:23 pm
There’d better be more than “10 microns” of slop in the M&P, or it wouldn’t freaking CYCLE.
That’s the oddest excuse I think I’ve ever seen.
April 22nd, 2014 at 12:48 pm
the agency traded 120 SIG Sauers for 120 of Smith & Wesson’s newer guns
Note to TX DPS: You got hosed on this trade.
April 22nd, 2014 at 1:07 pm
If the sight is moving .01mm then at 25 yards it would affect your point of impact by more than 1/16″. Something tells me that the reporter or po-po have their numbers wrong.
April 22nd, 2014 at 1:25 pm
There may be exceptions, say, if you’re working in the microchip industry or in other high-tech, but generally speaking, if you’re fretting over microns, you are insane.
More likely though is that some ignorant reporter (but I repeat myself) not only got the story wrong as usual, but doesn’t know the difference between a micron and a duck.
“A reporter spoke to a cop…” is the opening line of a joke anyway.
April 22nd, 2014 at 1:56 pm
I wonder if the head space expanded by 10 microns?
April 22nd, 2014 at 2:26 pm
I’m going with Lyle at Comment 7. Ten microns also has to include “at what temperature?” That is unimaginably small tolerance. The reporter got it wrong.
April 22nd, 2014 at 3:09 pm
The first problem is that they’re using a measuring system invented by frogs. Only one good thing has ever come out of France. If inches were good enough for Eli Whitney and Sam Colt, then by golly they’re good enough for the Texass DPS.
April 22nd, 2014 at 3:36 pm
10 microns is about .00039 inches. I wonder what they are using to measure to get that kind of precision. It won’t be a handy set of dial calipers.
April 22nd, 2014 at 4:15 pm
I’m still waiting for the reporter/cop/penis/microns/guns joke. Anyone? OK I’ll start;
A reporter and a cop walk into a bar…
April 22nd, 2014 at 4:40 pm
I’m also thinking that they said “sight” movement, and the reporter either misheard or misspelled it.
And, like some other folks, I’m slightly curious as to how they determined that anything had moved by 10 microns. Unless they are using some awfully high tech equipment, the potential error factor in the measurement process is going to be greater than that.
Either there’s a lot more to the story that is presented in that report, or someone is seriously FOS. Based on the 10 micron number, I’m leaning toward FOS.
April 22nd, 2014 at 5:04 pm
Seems a little odd, microns are a very small measurement. What lead up to them making these measurements i wonder.
April 22nd, 2014 at 5:06 pm
It better be 10 mm and not 10 micros (aka .01mm)
Hell, recoil of 10 micron? Sign me up.
April 22nd, 2014 at 5:52 pm
i bet a bolt action recoils more than 10 microns. It has to be 10mm and the reporter got it wrong.
April 22nd, 2014 at 6:00 pm
I have a couple of micrometers that’ll take you straight to .0001″ resolution, and you can interpolate a bit on the next digit.
April 22nd, 2014 at 7:25 pm
I communicated with DPS on this issue. The article referenced should read sight movement. DPS is currently conducting further testing of the M&P platform.
http://progunpodcast.com/texas-dps-temporarily-suspends-plans-with-smith-wesson-mp-pistols/
April 22nd, 2014 at 9:29 pm
Antagon is right, 10 micron sight movement with a 5″ sight radius is about 0.07″ at 25 yards. Big deal.
April 22nd, 2014 at 9:49 pm
So how would this sight issue hurt the cops? They hit only 30 percent of the time and most of that is bystanders.
April 22nd, 2014 at 10:03 pm
My personal theory is that they don’t know a micron from a Millimeter, and couldn’t measure 10 microns if all 10 of them leaped up and bit them in the ass at once.
FWIW, I do dimensional measurement for a living, and do use equipment that goes into the Micron. There isn’t much on a handgun that I could measure that closely on a repeated basis, with the best equipment I’ve got available. (I do the ovality on pistons, folks. I can do microns, or millionths of an inch, and I wouldn’t try to measure a handgun that way.)
It’s someone in the Cop Shop measuring something in Millimeters, and not knowing how to do it, actually. Sad, sorry, and no excuse for the stupidisms, but there it is.
April 22nd, 2014 at 10:16 pm
Sounds like the agency want new toys and is looking for an excuse for a change. The M&P I carry has a hell of a lot more than 3000 rounds through it without any problems. I agree: ammo and training.
April 22nd, 2014 at 11:15 pm
The ‘slight movement’ of the slide means the recoil spring is weak or SHORT.
That might also explain ejection and feeding problems.
And if they cannot replicate the problem with new guns then I bet the springs on all of them were defective. Maybe even those that powered the extractor.
April 23rd, 2014 at 12:00 am
+1 Paul
Maybe the “armorer” bubba-ed the springs to get a low cost apex trigger?
April 23rd, 2014 at 3:54 pm
Relax, people: the reporter just said ‘micron’ because he couldn’t spell ‘angstrom’.
April 23rd, 2014 at 4:41 pm
Ok. “Kirk Parker”, that’s funny right there. I don’t care who you are.
April 23rd, 2014 at 5:21 pm
Donald, you don’t have to use scare-quotes, that’s my real name. 😉
April 23rd, 2014 at 6:01 pm
What does Smith and Wesson say ? I would expect they would not like this complaint to go un-answered. I am sure they know what a micron is.
April 27th, 2014 at 11:13 am
“sight movement” I’m guessing this means you could feel movement when trying to wiggle the sight in its dovetail. Ten microns would be about the minimum movement you might be able to feel. Seems like a trip to the armorer/gunsmith for that particular gun would make more sense than taking a whole bunch of guns out of service.