Slavery
A definition. The trouble with that definition is that it makes anything anyone doesn’t like to do slavery. I paid taxes on a gasoline purchase today, something I would not do if I had a choice, for instance. While I understand what Billy’s getting at, when you jump right to comparing things like that to slavery, those living in the endarkenment tend to roll their eyes at you.
Guess you have to start somewhere.
July 6th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Had that conversation yesterday. Sadly, the gentlemen whose choice is to rape the attractive woman in the subway can have his choice made for him when she is armed and threatens him with force. In that instance, there is no slavery.
July 6th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Theoretically speaking, you do have a choice there, as you could always make your own fuel (probably easier with diesel than regular gasoline, but, yea :p). Not to mention the choice to use or buy in the first place.
As such, the easier question to pose to the endarkened is whether the station owner is enslaved by acting as an unpaid tax collector for the state. If they agree somewhat to this, then the next question is to whether the station is a de facto state-run enterprise.
If they disagree entirely and say the owner chose to do it and is working for the “collective good” or some such nonsense, ask why he’s not allowed to unionize against the state like all the other tax feeders.
July 6th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
illspirit,
That’s brilliant.
July 6th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Unc; Say I steal a minute of your time, forcing you to do my bidding. You have no choice. Just one minute. Say I steal your whole life doing the same. Different levels of the same thing.
Billy’s saying it’s the principle of the thing, not the level or rate at which the theft takes place. Theft is wrong. Liberty is the ideal. You either do or do not sanction theft. If theft is OK, then we’re just talking abot how much, and then immediately we’re talking about how fast we increase the rate of theft.
If for example, rape is bad, we aren’t going to argue over what level of penetration is OK, or whether just some light, forced fondling is OK. If light fondling is OK, tomorrow we’ll be talking about fondling that may not be quite as light, but still “light”. Then ABC will run an in-depth series of documentaries about the definition of “light” and how plenty of people have been much more heavily fondled, and even gang raped, and come out fine. Our presidential candidates will have been hanging out with murder/rapists their whole lives and we’ll be labeled as racist extremists if we point that out, etc., etc.
Is forced light fondling right or wrong? Hey; it won’t hurt a bit! What’s your problem (rolls eyes)?
July 6th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
There are people who want to murder, rape and steal. Only the threat of force inhibits them. According to Billy they are slaves.
Billy’s definition of slavery is so broad it is meaningless.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
Lyle: There’s ‘fondle’, and then there’s ‘*fondle* fondle’.
July 6th, 2011 at 11:01 pm
Tim, you are a complete idiot, so it’s no wonder a principled position should be meaningless to you. Take two remedial courses in the difference between aggression and self-defense, and maybe some adults will take you seriously.
Unc: replace “does not like” with “did not choose” and your grasp of the matter will firm up. There can be no unchosen obligations -i.e. no duty – in a truly free society.
The essence of freedom is the freedom to set the terms upon which we will deal with others – and to freely accept or reject the terms set by others. This not only precludes obvious uses of force such as rape and murder, but subtle ones such as “you will accept my price or else” (eminent domain) or third-party intrusion upon private dealings (building codes, fuel taxes etc.)
The nose of a camel isn’t much camel, but it IS still 100% made of camel -and it doesn’t belong in the tent.
Period.
July 7th, 2011 at 9:54 am
It gets involved. I had some guy tell me that lots of people are in ‘wage slavery’ because they can’t get the kind of job or kind of pay they want. His solution(of course) involved the government taking care of it….