Caught on tape
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Uncle Pays the Bills
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December 13th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Asswipe cop chimed in the situation would have been bad if the perp had been shot….
December 13th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Well, I dont know what the laws are in Missouri, but in most places running out to your garage and shooting someone because they might be stealing your stuff is not a reasonable use of deadly force.
Guy should have stayed bunkered in his house and called the cops. He could have gotten killed.
December 13th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Running out to shoot someone stealing from your garage is illegal but confronting someone stealing from your garage then using deadly force when they point a gun at you is self defense. The question the homeowner needs to ask is whether he really had the mental state to shoot since you don’t normally give the other guy a chance to come to bear.
I don’t know if this was urban or rural but at my place someone could rob me blind before the deputies got here. I suppose to just hide and watch because they might be mean? I carry because if I came home on a robbery, they’d have to go down the driveway to escape, i.e., through me, which means I need to be prepared to deal with a panicked criminal.
December 13th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
We have the Castle Doctrine her so I don’t think he could be prosecuted for protecting his property.
December 13th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Well, he is charging into the garage and immediately pointing the gun at the guy… he is the one who is introducing deadly force into the equation. It actually might not be ruled as self defense.
There is a castle doctrine in my neck of the woods too, but the way the law is, if you leave the relative safety of your locked house to go out and shoot someone who may or may not be stealing your stuff you are in big do-do.
All I am saying here is that whatever is in that garage is probably not worth losing his life over or the risk of having to hash it all out in a court room and hope that a jury sees it your way.
December 13th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
Did you see the perp walk into the garage with the supposed gun in his hand? Is he holding it by the barrel?
December 13th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
All I am saying here is that whatever is in that garage is probably not worth losing his life over or the risk of having to hash it all out in a court room and hope that a jury sees it your way .
No. Whatever was in the garage that the perp wanted wasn’t worth dying in order to steal. I have no issue with him confronting someone who forcibly entered his garage. The perp is very, very lucky he’s still alive.
December 13th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
Gunmart: Since deadly force is defined as “That amount of force which can be reasonably expected to cause death or serious injury” I would say that merely pointing a gun at someone is not, as a matter of law, deadly force.
Break into my house, even my garage, with a gun in your hand, you will die. Period.
December 13th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Like I said, I dont know what the laws are in Missouri, but in my state it is. Once you bring a gun (or any weapon) into the mix all bets are off. Things have then been elevated to the level of lethal force.
Its good because it works both ways. Once a bad guy displays a weapon (knife, gun, what ever) the good guy can go ahead and use lethal force and there wont be any problems.
It all comes down to state laws. In my state (and we are pretty gun friendly and yes we do have a castle law) you can’t use lethal force to defend property. Only your life or someone else’s life. If you go out into the mix like that home owner did, they could very easily make the case that you were a hot head going out there to shoot those guys for being on your property or for messing with your stuff. It might eventually get all worked out for good by a jury… or it might not.
In Texas, it is legal to go shoot someone one over property. You might remember that guy who shot the burglar who was robbing his neighbor’s house. He got off, but for a while there he was charged and it took some time to get him cleared.
My point was just that its not worth it. The guy could have been shot himself, or he might have had to deal with the ramifications of having to shoot someone else – legal and otherwise.
Isnt the ultimate goal of any situation like that to not get killed? Just call the cops. They were not in his house, so there was no threat to his life. Insurance will replace his stuff. Just dont risk stepping into a situation like that. He got real lucky, but if things went just a little differently he could have been killed.
December 13th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
So you stay in the house, call the cops, watch these armed and probably dangerous assholes pick what they want out of your property. Got them on tape. Your out your stuff and do you think the cops will pursue them with attitude like they did Joel Rosenberg? Having had my house broken into before and my experience with our public protectors…… I think not. They sent some snotty nosed child detective later to ask me four questions and leave me with his card saying if you see the perp give us a call. Have not heard from them since.
December 13th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Gunmart, you’re sounding like a Brady.
December 13th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
The homeowner was extremely foolish to hold his fire while looking down the barrel of a burglar’s gun. He trusted his life to an armed criminal and only a fool would do that. He should have opened fire immediately upon seeing the weapon, just as any well-trained police officer would have done. It was pure luck on his part that the perp did not kill him.
December 13th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
Gunmart, I don’t know what state you are in, but in Florida the case is Riviero v. State, 871 So.2nd 953 (Fla. 3DCA 2004)
The reason that you may employ deadly force when faced with an attacker armed with a firearm is not because deadly force is being employed, it is because you are being faced with the imminent threat of deadly force. A burglar cannot make that claim, as he is not lawfully in the structure, and while committing burglary armed with a firearm, he is committing a forcible felony.
December 14th, 2010 at 12:02 am
were those 8lb powder tubs on the table in the background? Kinda looked like it, maybe these guys knew that there was something of value around.
December 14th, 2010 at 11:09 am
Snort worthy.
I thought that if we were gonna have a discussion about this, it would atleast have one foot in reality. Guess not.
Look, I know its fun to sit behind a keyboard and one hand type about ‘if people mess with my stuff, I’m gonna introduce them to my Bren 10’, but come on….
The reality of the situation is that the decision the home owner made resulted in him have to stare down the business end of a bad guy’s gun. He chose poorly. There is nothing in that garage that is worth that guy risking his life for…. and if there is, then perhaps he should lock it up behind something more secure then a tarp.
The guy got lucky, but if that idiot of a criminal would have remembered to bring bullets for that gun of his, the home owner probably would have taken one in the gut. Not to mention that other perp that snuck around the tarp could have very easily circled around and shanked the guy in the back before he even knew he was there. Not a happy ending to the story, now is it?
Oh, but I forgot…. we are all high speed/low drag members of the elite Internet Commandos Unit and could have stealthed our way in there and dropped those Tangos before they even knew we were there. Only problem is that once the cops show up and see the video, all they are gonna see is two guys wandering around a wide open unlocked car port with their thumbs up their butts…. Have fun explaining why you just shot two guys for trespassing.
***Snark off***
Its been fun… Good day gentlemen!
December 14th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
They weren’t shot for trespassing. They were shot for unlawfully threatening the homeowner with deadly force while committing a forcible felony. If you cannot defend yourself while on your own property, then you have no rights to self defense at all.