What gun for women?
A woman is seeking a recommendation for a gun. In this scenario, one of the consistent, and frankly bad, bits of advice that male gunnies give is to go right out and get yourself a 38 revolver. You know, because they’re simple, unlike those pesky auto-loaders. And they don’t have a slide, which you womenfolk seem to struggle with. This is just bad advice. As with most things gun-related, it’s a matter of taste and preference. And if someone wants an auto-loader, why talk them out of it? Auto-loaders have more manageable triggers. Odd how folks think that someone who lacks the hand strength to rack a slide (though they can) can somehow shoot a revolver with a laboriously long and heavy trigger accurately.
I’m not the only one who thinks this is bad advice.
Update: In comments, Tina:
When I’m asked for a gun recommendation for women in my classes, I tell the person this: Shoot every kind/type of gun you can get your hands on. After that, buy whatever firearm you can easily manipulate under stress, shoot on target consistently and suits your carry or home defense requirements.
What she said.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:21 am
yes yes, we know; Im guilty of this one however it usually a set of circumstances where they want the bare minimum and they want it right now. You now how women can be. Truth is I would prefer they pick thier gun the way I would. With little knowledge or experiance, you should find someone with some skills, and a large collection ot draw from, and spend a day at the range. Shoot, handle and work a variaty of guns and make a more informed decision. This usually doesnt work because most of the women I know that want ot buy a handgun are doing so only to appize thier husbands, err go; they dont really care and are not taking it very serious. In leu of proper piicking methods to find the RIGHT handgun, a 38 snub will usually suffice for most, even though something else might be a better fit.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:24 am
When I’m asked for a gun recommendation for women in my classes, I tell the person this: Shoot every kind/type of gun you can get your hands on. After that, buy whatever firearm you can easily manipulate under stress, shoot on target consistently and suits your carry or home defense requirements.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:36 am
What Spook said.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:41 am
What Tina said! The people who I’ve been with from not owning guns, to shooting guns, to buying guns they’ve run about a 50/50 split which has no correlation with gender. Some prefer Semi-autos, some prefer wheel guns.
And even worse are people like me who PREFER semi-autos, but find that there are absolutely times when the wheel-iron is king.
Also every gun has a drawback. My wife shoots a S&W J-Frame airweight like a champ…why? Because that’s the gun SHE chose out of all the guns she fondled in her introductory phase. Yeah it holds very few rounds, yeah it kicks like a cow, yeah the trigger pull is long and heavy, but that’s the gun she wanted so she knows that’s the best for her.
I personally never have less fun than when I’m shooting Glocks, they just don’t work well for me personally, so I don’t really bother with them. Awesome guns…just not in my hands.
Take-away, every person is different.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:45 am
I agree with Spook, of course, and would reinforce that a bit to say that if someone is so unknowledgable about guns that they don’t even have a feeling as to whether they want a revolver or a semi … a revolver is a very good choice. You can load it up and then ignore it for 5 years and it will still fire when you pull it out.
And dang it … everyone needs a revolver. I own a bunch of guns, and mostly autos, but it’s still a 5 shot snubby I find easiest to conceal in my daily dress of jeans and T-shirt. Or jeans and a polo shirt for a special occasion.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:48 am
A mid-sized .38 revolver (the one that fits your hand best) is the default short answer that I give ANY inexperienced would be new gun owner.
1. Its not too heavy of a caliber, but will get the job done in most situations.
2. Its the simplest method of operation and thus has the shortest learning curve. (no safety, no decocker, easiest to load/unload, etc etc…)
3. Its the easiest for an inexperienced shooter to train the other members of their household to use.
I think its a great way to get people’s feet wet, and I stand by it as a default beginer firearm. You have to realize that the vast majority of the people you have “that conversation” with just want to buy a gun… They dont want to become shooters or gun nuts or are even serious enough to keep that thing primed for home defense. Its just gonna sit in their closet in the box it came in and that will be enough to give them the peace of mind that they are looking for.
I will say that if the conversation continues on past just “I want to get a gun” or they bring up concealed carry I will try to be as informative as possible and go into the greater details of shoot as many different guns/calibers as possible… becoming as educated as possible about how to fill the specific role they are looking the “tool” to serve (Carry/home defense/etc…). If I also feel that they are serious about keeping it ready to go for home defense I will suggest that they invest in a laser (since odds are they probably arent going to practice as much as they should) a good flashlight and a GunVault if they got small kids around.
Yes, a .38 revolver is not for everyone, but it is the best all around starting point for probably 90% of the population…. decisions on where to go based on personal preferences and requirements can be made from there, but you are gonna be hard pressed to find those for whom a .38 absolutely positively wont work.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:48 am
women can handle any gun… sometimes even better then men do.
my proof was 1.55m high about 45kg Blondie handling a full size 1911 without any problem
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:50 am
I agree with Tina’s comments, but I don’t get how recommending a 38 is “bad advice”. A semi-auto is not a good choice for a person who is unwilling to dedicate the time necessary to master malfunction drills. Big deal if you can shoot a Glock at the range, if you go all “deer in the headlights” each time you get a stovepipe or double-feed, then you’ve got a problem.
Obviously, I don’t have the statistics to back me up, but I’ll bet that at least 90% of women who possess handguns for self-defense are not practicing malfunction drills at home and at the range on a weekly, or even yearly, basis. Heck, I bet most men don’t do that. So until that changes, in my opinion a revolver is a great recommendation as a starting point.
My girlfriend has numerous semi-autos and only one revolver to choose from for her personal defense gun. She chooses the 38 revolver. And she shoots the revolver better than me.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:51 am
There’s always so much more to the question. Are they going to practice with it or is it going to go into the nightstand for the next 20 years? Do they intend to carry it in a purse or on their person. Non obvious physical limitations?
I totally agree with Tina that they need to go shoot everything they can get their hands on as research. Recently, we had a friends wife ask this question as a camp out (gathering of shooting friends) It wasn’t obvious to us but she has really bad arthritis in her hands and it makes it very difficult for her to manipulate a slide on most of the small .380 autos and the trigger pull on a some of the compact revolvers caused pain as well. We had quite a collection of arms and it ended up that the walther pk380 was the only one that she could operate without hurting. I’m not pushing the walther but just noting that she had to try pretty much everything the crowd had to find that out. The lcp and my wife’s ppks were impossible for her to rack because the simple act of grasping the slide (overhand, slingshot whatever) caused too much pain when she tried to close her hand.
A blanket “go buy this” would have been awful for her.
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:02 pm
I’ve got several firearms, but the .38 snubbie has been my carry piece for 8 years now. Not too heavy, easily concealable, will generally do the job.
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:04 pm
I’m not in the business of recommending guns to others, but my wife carries a Glock 17; same as me. But she also trains with it; same as me.
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 pm
When we got my wife a handgun, we rented over a dozen at our local range before she settled on a .357Mag Ruger GP-100. She shot everything from a S&W snubbie .38 to a Glock 19 and everything in between and just liked the Ruger the best.
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:15 pm
m4shooter has a great point. Whenever I am asked (by either gender) what first un I recommend, I ask how often they plan to shoot and if they are getting any training. If they’re not going to put time into malf drills I always recommend a revolver.
On the other side, when my MiL got her permit and we went to the range we did malf drills with all the rental 9mm autos she tried. (gotta love snap caps!) This helped her decide which auto to buy for daily carry.
regards,
Pol
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Took my wife out yesterday and let her try out the Ruger MkIII, Walther P22, Bersa Thunder 380, and Beretta 92FS.
She’d done some snap cap/laser drills with them at the house and liked the Bersa. But turns out that at the range she found the 92FS to be her favorite of the guns. Didn’t expect that since her hands are on the smaller side, but she did really well with it.
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:41 pm
I usually recommend they try 9mm autoloaders, and point out they do not need a compact, alot of the guns the size difference really is not all that much, kind of compromise between a gun they can conceal, and a gun that is comfortable to practice with.
I’ve only had one lady that couldn’t rack the slide, but she really did like the 9mm over the 38 J-Frame, the solution for her, was her husband loaded the gun for her, and she would shoot it empty, and reload, releasing the slide was not a problem, maybe not perfect, but it worked for her.
I also point out the cost difference in ammo from 9mm to 38 SPl.
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:55 pm
They are just over simplifyling things by saying that recommending a .38 is over simplifying things… Ironic, isnt it?
Of course it’s more nuanced then just saying “This is the one gun thats right for everyone”. Its the same as if someone told you they wanted to buy a car and asked which one they should get…. Well, the correct answer to that question is probably to tell them the most utilitarian thing that will get them from point A to point B. Yes, it may not have room for their 4 kids, or it may not be a hybrid, or it may not be a convertable, or it may be a too big for them to parralel park, but it will run and it will get them from point A to point B. Just like the gun question, if you dont know what special needs they have or what specific wants they desire, then the best you can do is give they a generalized solution and if they really are serious and have specific questions you can go from there.
Exit Question: As good gun folk, shouldn’t our answer to the which gun to buy question be, “Oh. You are looking to buy a gun? We should get together and go shooting sometime. I’ll let you shoot a bunch of my guns so you can try some different ones out.”
August 23rd, 2010 at 1:33 pm
I hate revolvers. I also shoot my 40 SW M&P better than my husband can.
I hate when people assume that women are incapable of handling semi-autos. I have had surgery on both my hands, and yet I have absolutely no trouble racking the slide. I’m sure the same percentage of women practice malfunction drills as men, too.
August 23rd, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Spook45 Says: “You now how women can be.”
Well then…that explains a lot, now, doesn’t it?
August 23rd, 2010 at 2:16 pm
m4shooter,
Strike “women” and substitute “shooters” and you’d be right.
August 23rd, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Commented over at Breda’s that the first gun question itself is misleading, but another thing that gets on my nerves is the “for women” qualifier. Yeah, that’s a useful filter. What’s the best gun for Americans? See? Dumb.
I know I’m preaching to the choir. Mostly.
I try to cut the gun counter employees some slack because they don’t know you from Adam and knowing you is a big part of buying a gun. But man, it seems gun counter guys suffer from as many bad apples as the TSA.
August 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm
“What gun for women?” Probably a 30-30, depending on distance and shot placement.
August 23rd, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Naw, Treefroggy, don’t be silly — large-caliber handgun, as most can be engaged at close range but are often quite dangerous.
August 23rd, 2010 at 3:20 pm
When I lived at home and we had weekend family range outings, my mom’s favorite gun to shoot was the Thompson Contender in .30-30. (Yes, she was obviously overcompensating for the size of her penis.)
I’m not generalizing, but I find that a lot of “counter guys” come off a bit elitist, and can’t possibly fathom the fact that a “weak little woman” could have the ability to shoot the same caliber as he does. It seems as though some counter guys equate shooting sports to earning a black-belt in Karate. Like it should take you 5 or so years to be able to “work” your way up to shooting a .45. Especially if you’re female.
August 23rd, 2010 at 4:27 pm
I have often suspected that people who recommend wheelguns as “ideal” for new shooters (male or female) must not shoot a whole lot of wheelguns. Seriously, take a year and shooting nothing but DA revolvers, and I don’t you dare shoot them single action. God help you if you have a crappy gun like a Taurus DA with a 22 pound gritty trigger pull.
Actually, that’s not a half bad idea. The next time someone tells you that a DA revo is a good newbie gun, ask them what they carry. Ask them how many rounds of ammo they’ve shot through DA revos in competition, in self defense classes, or just at all. It wouldn’t surprise me if the answer was “not very much”. Once you crank out a couple thousand rounds through a DA gun, you gain an appreciation of what a bitch they are to shoot well under stress. Just because Jerry Miculek makes it look easy…
August 23rd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
When at the range under my supervision, any pistol is ok with my girlfriend. She can not work the slide well/safely on anything smaller than a 5″ pistol.
Unfortunately she fits all the stereotypes. Trust me, I’ve tried to introduce her to autoloaders. She even dislikes the 22/45. I nearly bought her a pink lcp, but even I had a hard time with that little slide.
I load her cowboy level loads for her .38 spl, since she is recoil sensitive. It seems to be working well for her.
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I JUST posted on this yesterday as we had a woman in class that listened to the guy behind the counter and bought an Airweight in 38. She couldn’t even reliably pull the trigger! She had gotten bad advise in prior training that “she couldn’t handle the slide” as well as an instructor who took the gun away form her and worked the slide then gave it back so she could just shoot it instead of learning how to manipulate it properly.
This happens enough to be aggravating to me. Actually once is enough to get under my skin.
http://gungeekrants.blogspot.com/2010/08/range-day-win.html
We let women try the variety of guns we have available at Basic 1 class. (about 20) we let them find out what they can and cannot work and show them proper technique so they can work the slide themselves. I make it a point that they be able to do everything themselves and often chase husband/boyfriend away so they can build the skill and confidence to take care of themselves. That is the difference between letting them shoot your gun and teaching them to shoot your gun.
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:18 pm
After looking/trying/shooting a veritable plethora of handguns, the Wife decided on an officer’s sized 1911. Since then, she’s cast her eye on a Walther PPS in 9mm and a Taurus 709. I see a trend toward single-stacks here.
At least I got my BHP back from her, which she’d laid claim to before picking up her 1911.
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:34 pm
I teach the Tennessee handgun Carry Permit Course and routinely get the “This is what my Husband/Boyfriend?Father/Brother/Guy at the Gun Store said I needed. My rules for pistol selection are simple: 1 – Find a pistol that fits your hand, 2 – That has a trigger/slide/magazine you can operate, 3 – That has good high profile sights, 4 – In as large a caliber as you can manage. Most indoor ranges have rental programs which will let you try different pistols inexpensively. The range where I teach (Sevier Indoor Range) has a monthly Ladies Night. $10 covers their range time, targets and the use of any of the rental guns, I also let the ladies shoot my personal pistols. The only added cost is the ammo (for insurance reasons, they have to use range ammo).
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:50 pm
I would likely only own one handgun if one handgun suited all purposes for me.
As it is, I have several.
Three are really useful for carry on my person or in my car. Another four are destined to be my children’s guns when they leave home.
A few were purchased just because I could afford to, and liked what I saw in the used gun counter at McBride’s Guns in Austin.
One was purchased because I had never seen a Ruger Mark I in such good shape, let alone at a bargain price in a pawn shop.
I still need a good 22LR revolver, though….
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:15 pm
mikee,
Good luck with that.
People who have good .22 revolvers don’t part with them, and new ones are damned expensive.
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:42 pm
Clint Smith calls snubbie revolvers “Expert’s guns” for a reason. They require much more practice and understanding of shooting fundamentals than other pistols.
August 24th, 2010 at 5:42 am
Breada got there – finally. “You know how women can be.” You don’t want to know what I wanted to say to that… really. (Spook45 – I’m sure if you ask, someone can read the definition of “prejudice” to you.)
OK, turn this question around. What’s the best new gun for a man?
How about asking ‘for what?’ My first gun was 16 gauge shotgun, but since I was 12 years old, it wasn’t primarily for home defense. The first handgun I bought was .357 – and I only shot .38s in it during practice because they are oh so much cheaper than magnums. Haven’t had that gun to the range in a while….
And Uncle while you are right that “most” will say .38 special, there is a really sad number of men who buy .22LR pistols for their significant other. (One guy – who managed to still be married to his wife, who was an NRA safety instructor when I knew her, was still trying to live that down 10 years later.)
August 24th, 2010 at 5:45 am
And on the subject of whether revolvers are better than semi-auto (or GLOCK is better than 1911, etc.)
I would just like to say that vanilla is simply better ice cream than chocolate.
August 24th, 2010 at 6:02 am
I loved my Bersa 380. Easy to conceal in Florida heat. (Until I dropped it in the salt water. She didn’t work so good after that….)
Carried a full-size, all-steel 9mm. By 3PM it weighed 20 pounds. Though having 15 round magazines was comforting.
Some of it is going to depend – if it is a carry gun – on exactly how you intend to conceal it.
Home defense? What does your most-likely defensive position look like? Can you fort up in the bedroom? Are you in an apartment (where over penetration can be a problem – though you might handle some of that with careful selection of ammo.)
When I bought my .357 I lived in an all masonry house. If I was in the bedroom shooting down the hall, the brick fireplace, the tile bathroom, brick exterior and 2 brick walls in the garage ensured that my shots were probably not going to travel very far. A lot of gun was called for. (The most I could comfortably shoot.) Of course the shotguns fell into the same category. (Not in the bedroom, most of my time was spent in the basement family room. Even shooting up the stairs I was shooting into lathe and plaster, insulation and brick. (Not a lot of insulation, but a good amount of brick in that house.)
August 24th, 2010 at 6:27 am
Worse, I’ve read “first gun” stories from outside the gunbloggerverse in which the writer gets a revolver to avoid manipulating a slide, and it becomes clear that she’s shooting the wheelgun single action.
August 24th, 2010 at 8:12 am
Still and all, when the Waffle House waitress shows up at Post Road Guns with a newly-minted order of protection, she’s going to leave with a Model 12 every time. I know this because an expert told me so.
Now can we skip this peripheral stuff and get back to the proper shape for nightclub boot heels?