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Have Gun, Must Flaunt It?

WSJ on open carry.

15 Responses to “Have Gun, Must Flaunt It?”

  1. Nylarthotep Says:

    Love it when TV critics decide to make commentary on a topic they are quite obviously clueless about. That article must be the WSJ attempt at editorial balance.

    You’d think, with every micro-minority protest being splashed about the MSM, that the commentator would think that this should be tolerated like any one else. Except that it involves those nasty evil killing thingees.

  2. Robert Says:

    I’m suprised there were no dick jokes in that article.

  3. m4shooter Says:

    Good article. WSJ Opinion correctly points out that concealed carry is better practice for self-defense. Open carry opens an individual up for gun grabs and allows an enemy to prepare an appropriate offense.

    Open carry typically is the product of either flaunting (your gun or your rights) or laziness (to go the extra step to carry IWB or otherwise concealed).

  4. The Packetman Says:

    M4shooter,

    Last time I heard about an attempted gun grab, the perpetrator wound up with a well-deserved broken jaw.

    Please cite verified examples of a successful gun grab from a citizen lawfully carrying a handgun.Otherwise, I call BS.

    Your characterization is evidence that you just don’t like the idea of open carry. That, I can respect. But when you characterize open carriers as either lazy or weapons flaunting, your opinion gets the lack of attention it so richly deserves, IMNSHO.

    Example.

    I have Multiple Sclerosis. There are a great number of symptoms possible, but the one that is germane to my situation is that my hands simply don’t work like they used to. They’re numb, and my coordination with them is degraded. I can still, however, shoot a handgun reasonably well, although slower than I used to (btw, I’m a Marine Corps expert rifle and pistol badge holder).

    My carry pistol is an FEG PJK-9HP, and it lives in a Smartcarry holster. Because my wardrobe is mostly casual (including shorts), this manner of carry fits my lifestyle and my wardrobe. And currently, I don’t have any problems using my left hand to open my waistband to present my firearm.

    But rest assured, If I ever do need to start open carrying, for whatever reason, I will. And it won’t be because I’m lazy, or that I’m flaunting my weapons (if I wanted to flaunt, I’d start carrying my FAL wherever I went).

    It’s because I have a natural right to self-defense, and I’ll personally be damned if I let anyone dictate to me the manner in which I can lawfully defend myself.

    But to you, I’ll simply be lazy or flaunting my weapon.

    Nothing could be further from the truth.

  5. The Packetman Says:

    M4shooter,

    You’ll pardon me if I decline to consult WSJ for self-defense advice.

    The last attempted ‘gun-grab’ I heard about had the perpetrator receiving a well-deserved broken jaw.

    Concurrently, diners at a Kennesaw WaffleHouse were treated to the deterrent effects of openly-displayed firearms.

    Provide documentation of your claims, or don’t claim them as fact.

    It’s ok that you don’t care for open carry ….. my advice is – don’t.

    But don’t ascribe your perceived motivations for open carrying as the reasons other citizens do so.

  6. m4shooter Says:

    The Packetman,

    I did not say that you are lazy, because by your own admission, you are not open carrying. But I do stand corrected. For the 0.01% of people open carrying who do so because of physical ailment, I now decree them NOT to be lazy or flaunting. For what it’s worth, I was also not referring to police officers, soldiers or people with only one hand, if that makes you feel better.

    I did not mean to attack the individuals open carrying — just the reasons behind it. Mainly because I have yet to hear a compelling justification for open carrying that outweighs the negatives.

    As for your argument that gun grabs do not happen, that is ridiculous. (1) There is an entire industry built around retention holsters (thumb strap, SERPA, etc.) and I don’t need to provide documentation that retention devices are not just used for zero-gravity situations or when you are hanging upside-down from monkey bars. (2) There are numerous shooting classes and books that have sections dealing specifically with gun retention and defending against gun grabs — I guess you are more educated or informed than those professionals. (3) Do your own research — this isn’t a theme paper, so I don’t need to attach a bibliography.

  7. Huck Says:

    m4shooter, retention holsters are not proof that gun grabs happen, but proof that gun owners are safety conscious and want to insure that their handgun stays in the holster until/unless needed. LEOs use them too and for the same reason.

    Further, your comment about not having to attach a “bibliography” just shows that you have no proof that gun grabs happen. Check out OpenCarry.org. If gun grabs were common they’d be posted there for sure. Unlike you, I’ll even post a link.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/

  8. The Packetman Says:

    [I sincerely apologize for the double-post – it appeared to have floated down some memory hole the first time, hence the shorter repeat]

    m4shooter, I refuse to do your work for you. Either you can document the rash of instances where open carrying citizens have had their guns grabbed, or you can’t.

    So far, you haven’t can’t.

    Huck and I have posted links supporting our assertions. Kindly do the same.

  9. m4shooter Says:

    You are seriously trying to say that gun grabs don’t happen? Do I have to provide documentary evidence that the Earth orbits the Sun too?

    Try here for starters: The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery By Massad Ayoob, pp. 86 – 87 give multiple examples in multiple states of gun grabs.

    I believe that Massad Ayoob is pretty well respected in the shooting community.

    Or is your argument that because there is not a “rash of instances” of gun grabs that they do not happen? Does a gun grab have to happen every day for it to be a legitimate threat?

  10. Scott M Says:

    I’ve left a few comments so far comments are heavily in favor of carry and a fair number are okay with either open or concealed. Somewhat surprising considering the source.

  11. m4shooter Says:

    Not to mention the fact that @The Packetman’s own “Georgia Packing” forum link gives another example of a gun grab. Which further supports my original statement: “Open carry opens an individual up for gun grabs…”

    This is pretty much indisputable. If a person is properly concealed, then a gun grab would never be attempted. So open carrying does open a individual up to the threat of gun grabs, as @The Packetman pointed out in his link.

    And to keep this thread on topic, this is exactly the point that the WSJ opinion piece closed on.

  12. straightarrow Says:

    m4 must be right. just today alone I became the proud owner of 13 Glocks. I grabbed them all off police officers. ran out of cops or I would have more. thanks for the tip m4.

  13. Jerry Says:

    Again, the intent of the person. A new watch, to impress someone? Or, just a new tool. To protect your family. The goal should be family.

  14. Linoge Says:

    Open carry typically is the product of either flaunting … your rights…

    You say that like it is a bad thing. Would you prefer that I stop wearing openly wearing my cross as well?

    Mainly because I have yet to hear a compelling justification for open carrying that outweighs the negatives.

    Fine, then do not open carry. Unlike you, I will not attempt to force/induce/shame/etc. you into doing something you do not want to do, simply because my beliefs might indicate you should. I expect the similar courtesy.

    (1) There is an entire industry built around retention holsters … (2) There are numerous shooting classes and books that have sections dealing specifically with gun retention and defending against gun grabs…

    Suggestion: stop conflating those individuals who actively seek to avoid conlict with those individuals who are paid and sworn to engage in conflict whenever the situation and laws require it. It might help your argument.

    Or do not, and keep on throwing up strawmen. Works for me.

    (3) Do your own research ó this isnít a theme paper, so I donít need to attach a bibliography.

    Argument fail. If you cannot support your position with citeable facts, then it is not much of a position to begin with. Of course, your laser-like focus on Packetman’s first link, and complete disregard of his second link, shows just how weak your position is already…

    So open carrying does open a individual up to the threat of gun grabs…

    So keeping a firearm at home does open an individual up to the threat of fatal accidents…

    Bigots within our ranks, indeed.

    *shrugs* I openly carry because it is more comfortable, because I find I can access and present my firearm much more quickly and reliably, because I firmly believe that reminding people that there are law-abiding, reasonable, responsible people out there carrying firearms is only a good thing, and because it opens up the possibilities of conversations like the one I recently had with a subject of Canukistan.

    Maybe those reasons are not “compelling” for you. Frankly, I do not give a damn. But when it comes to a convincing argument, you are damned close to falling on your own sword, at this point.

  15. JJR Says:

    The most interesting situation is Wisconsin where Open Carry is legal but concealed carry IS NOT. The only reason I know that is because I might be moving there to take a new job and looked it up. I much prefer to concealed carry like I do here in Texas, but if I got to Wisconsin I guess I’d have to get used to open carrying instead, whether I like it or not.