A welcome trend
When 81-year-old Carl Craig walked into Madison Guns & Ammo on Tuesday, he didn’t know that the gun he was carrying was an illegal weapon.
Craig had a Stevens .410 gauge pistol, made sometime in the late 1920s or early ’30s.
“The reason it is illegal is that it’s a handgun that fires a shotgun shell,” said David Hyche, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives resident agent in Huntsville and Birmingham.
ATF worked with the guy to let him keep his gun. And that required the gun being disassembled. This has happened a few times recently and hats off for that.
However, doesn’t keeping it disassembled open the owner up to issues like constructive possession?
October 13th, 2009 at 9:24 am
If a handgun that fires a shotgun shell is illegal, then how is Taurus able to sell “The Judge?”
http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=638&category=Revolver
October 13th, 2009 at 9:29 am
The gun is probably a smoothbore; which puts it in the same class as a sawed-off shotgun. The Taurus pistol is rifled.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:58 am
First off, the story is wrong as .410 is not a gauge but a caliber. I’ve been told but did not verify that that is what permits a .410 caliber not to be a sawed off shot gun. I believe the law talks about sawed-off shotguns in relation to gauge. That and pistols such as the Judge are designed to also fire .45 cal ammunition. Otherwise, how could you have a .22 rat shot.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:29 am
I think BobG has it right. If the barrel is rifled, the .gov doesn’t view it as a sawed-off.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:27 am
My guess is that it was an “H & R Handy Gun.”
It’s a smooth bore with a 12 1/4 inch barrel.
Single shot break action.
October 13th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Yeah, as long as the barrel is rifled, it’s not considered a shotgun — because then, technically speaking, it’s a .45 Colt chambering.
October 13th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Why not just say the law itself is retarded?
October 13th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
So a short barreled shotgun is okay if the barrel is rifled? I’m skeptical about that.
October 13th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
well, the local stuff you miss when on vacation…
I can say that I’ve dealt with the HSV and Birmingham ATF for issues with my C&R FFL and they have been genuinely helpful so I’m not surprised…
October 13th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
I’m with kaveman – it’s probably a Handi-Gun. They came in both rifled and smooth bore.
If it’s smoothbore, it’s an Any Other Weapon. Doesn’t really help since he can’t register it as-is, but removal and disposal of the original barrel renders it non-contraband. He could then either procure a rifled barrel, or register it and acquire a new smoothbore barrel for it.
There are tons of contraband guns out there, so this happens on a fairly regular basis.
October 13th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
“So a short barreled shotgun is okay if the barrel is rifled? I’m skeptical about that.”
Shotgun barrels are supposed to be at least 18″ to avoid falling under the NFA, whereas a rifle barrel is supposed to be at least 16″, so the point as stated is moot, methinks. (?) None of these laws make a lick of sense in the first place, so it’s usually a mistake to apply logic. Here we’re talking about handguns in any case.
There are several smooth bore handguns available as muzzleloaders (and I’ve been wanting to try handgun clays for quite a while)…
So; not all ATF agents are total shitheads. Sure, I’ve known one or two of them for years, and they’re nice people. I guess that makes all these infringements easier to live with then.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
I thought there was an exception for old antiques like this–but IIRC, the BATFE regs have to designate the particular model or some such bs
October 13th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
The definition of a shotgun from the ATF regs (27CFR 479.11)
So I guess if the weapon wasn’t designed, made or intended to be fired from the shoulder and has rifling, then you’re okay. Kind of like you can’t cut down a rifle, replace the stock with a pistol grip and call it a handgun.
October 14th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
The ATF cut him a lot of slack by not seizing the pistol as contraband and jailing him, which is their usual modus operandi.
As long as he does not have possession of the barrel, he’s OK.
He can even file a form 1 to make an AOW, and reassemble it later … an AOW has a $5 tax, not $200.
Another option would be to ask that it be added to the exempt Curio and Relics list, along with Marbles Game Getters, and stocked Broomhandle Mausers.
October 14th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
“He can even file a form 1 to make an AOW, and reassemble it later … an AOW has a $5 tax, not $200.”
It’s still $200 to register. The $5 is only to transfer an existing AOW.