Guns in your car
Often referred to as Guns At Work, though this is a blatant fabrication.
The guns in your car bill in Florida has been upheld.
Greg has some issues with the law and an analysis.
My thoughts are it goes too far to solve a problem. You see, before, if you had a gun in your car and your employer didn’t want it there, that was a crime. It’s own special crime as opposed to something like, say, trespassing, which should have cleared it up. Now, employers can’t keep you from doing it at all. Personally, I’m torn. Sure, a parking lot is an employer’s property. But my car is my property.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:36 am
A good argument to add here is based on public policy: is it good public policy to allow an employer to force his employees to be disarmed while traveling to and from work (which often includes a lot more activity, like transporting children, shopping, etc.)?
If we think it’s good public policy to allow citizens to carry concealed, why would it be good to prevent that from happening for much or most of their weekday?
I think this pretty easily tips over the question of “who’s liberty interests governs?”
July 30th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Harold – Employers cannot, either now or before the law passed, force anyone to be disarmed.
If my employer tells me they don’t want me to have a gun in my car, and insist on searching it (which they can because they are covered under one of the many exemptions) then I will simply take my skills elsewhere.
On the other hand, employers requiring vehicular searches for their employees are rather rare. Disney, who in part sparked this legislation, only searched for and found the now-ex-employee’s gun after he told them it was there. There never has been wide-spread abuse.
This law was more of a solution asking for a problem. And it is a poorly executed solution at that.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:44 am
It is an interesting argument. I am hoping Texas will pass such a bill in the next legislative session. Personally I believe the fundamental right to defend oneselve is paramount to the property rights of a business. Another angle to this might be to compare it to free speach. Can an employer fire you for lawfully protesting in front of their office?
July 30th, 2008 at 11:50 am
I was pretty sure they could…
July 30th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
My car, my property. No employer has an authority to search my car whether they own the parking lot or lease it. Same as no employer has a right to search my person. If I waive my right for drug test that is explicit waiver, not a general waiver. I do not grant an employer greater authority than I do the government.
Employer can search my company email, their server and computer. They can search my desk at the office. Their desk. They cannot search my pockets, my car. I have a right to have anything in my car that is normally legal. Books or guns.
If a drive a company car they can mandate what I have in it or not.
My personal civil rights do not disappear as a result of being employed.
They can fire me if it is an at will employment. This law simply clarifies that an employee cannot be fired for keeping legal property in his car.
They are a lot of laws that prevent arbitrary dismissals. This just adds to those laws.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Gregory Morris said: “If my employer tells me they don’t want me to have a gun in my car, and insist on searching it (which they can because they are covered under one of the many exemptions) then I will simply take my skills elsewhere.”
This assumes that you are able to go elsewhere. For many people it is impossible or impractical, for one reason or another. People just entering the job market may have only one or two offers, and bills are piling up. People near retirement age often have difficulty changing employers. Many areas only have one employer in a given field, and changing employers would require paying moving expenses and uprooting the entire family.
There can be many reasons one’s choice of employer is limited or nonexistent. In those cases, the employer CAN force you to be disarmed. And that force extends far beyond when you are actually working, as Harold pointed out.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Jake – I don’t disagree with you, but given at-will employment as the norm, you can be fired for just about anything (other than race, gender, etc.) anyway. On the other hand, do you want to be employed with a company that doesn’t respect your rights? I know, sometimes you just have to support your family regardless of your personal beliefs, but the more people give in to this type of behavior by employers, the more it will happen.
Can anyone tell me how common it is for employers to search their employees’ cars for guns? I really can’t imagine it is common at all. I agree that the inside of my car is my private property, regardless of where it is parked. I still maintain that this law is a solution looking for a problem. Its one thing to follow the letter of the law… we should all do that at any expense. But I could give a damn about following the letter of a stupid company policy when the odds of being caught are nearly zero.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Uncle,
What’s to torn about? Quoting you:
That seems like a very nice bright-line divide, doesn’t it? Inside your car, your business. Get it out, and it’s your employer’s business. Why is this hard or complicated?
July 30th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
what this has done is established legal precedent that my property remains my property even if i drive it onto private property… im all for this one.
July 30th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
this issue has never been a question of gun rights v. property rights. It has always been an issue of property v. propery rights. My property is mine. Theirs is theirs. I don’t presume to enforce my will on their property and will not abide them forcing their will on mine.