A plan
Most feminists agree on the basic principle that feminism is about recognizing and forcing others to recognize women as fully human, equal participants in society. How we go about that, what “fully human” means or what “equal participant” might entail are all up for grabs.
I think forcing is a bad choice of a word. And is also a bad choice in policy. I think the better plan is to convince rather than force. Forcing tends to put people off.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:04 am
thing is though, if you don’t force people to recognize women (or name-a-subgroup-of-humanity) as being fully human and equal, then the people you don’t so force frequently go on to force that named-subgroup-of-humanity into second-class status in society simply because they can.
shorter, if you tolerate intolerance, intolerance will not tolerate you. and no ill-treated minority have ever got their just dues by politely, quietly sitting and waiting for the majority in power to get around to treating them fairly.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Very good Comrade Nescio. Only mandatory reeducation can end intolerance.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:41 am
I’m a self-employed, independent woman who pays her own bills and enjoys the company of the opposite sex but does not “need” a partner to survive.
That said, I’ll never, ever identify myself as a feminist. Naming a movement that is allegedly about gender equality after only one gender is like announcing a new campaign to end the Ethiopia/Eritrea conflict and calling it “Ethiopianism.” That’ll make those Eritreans draw up a peace treaty then and there…
September 18th, 2007 at 11:28 am
Female unborn humans don’t get this protection, and it’s not extended to any woman in islam. White people get the full effect though.
Really, it boils down to: Bush lied.
September 18th, 2007 at 11:29 am
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September 18th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Yes, but we’ve been trying to convince folks for 3,000 years. We thought we might see what a century or two of being more direct got us. 😉
September 18th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
nothing will ever end intolerance, HC. it’s a basic fact of the human condition, just like bullying — and just like bullying, if you don’t stand up to it and force it to leave you the hell alone, it will steamroller all over you and keep you down in the ruts forever.
when minority A starts clamoring for nothing more than fair and equal treatment, and majority B promptly calls them rude and boorish and fascistic and oppressive and whatnot — sometimes that’s a sign the minority are hitting a nerve that needs to be hit some more.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Obviously Nomen Nescio is unaware of how India’s independence from Britain came about.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
phelps, i know it was a complicated, multifaceted affair that certainly did not limit itself to nicely begging the British to kindly do the right thing. even Wikipedia has a more nuacned take on it than that.
Gandhi’s actually a good example for my argument. he may not have used violence, but neither do modern feminists. he went even further than the modern feminist movement, through campaigns of mass civil disobedience that conspicuously broke the law. in the simplistic terms of my first note here, he stood up to the bullies, and the bullies eventually got off his back.
September 18th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Comrade Nescio, I think you are a bit confused in your history lesson. We must emulate Comrade Stalin’s reforms so that we may have glorious equality. Ghandi was a capitalist sympathizer – just look at their greedy and disorderly nation. We must strike the root of this oppression of our split-tail Comradskis and liberate their milk-bags!
September 18th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
“Fully human” and “equal participants” are buzz words that mean “If I don’t get my way you are denying my humanity and not allowing me to participate.
Of all the people I know, none of them regard women as less. All of them resent being manipulated by false claims of women who cannot attain on their own, but manage to have a third party force their ascension. That goes for the women I know also.
I must hang out with a pretty class of people.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I must hang out with a pretty good class of people. (correction)
Oh, and I have five daughters, most of whom are successful, the unsuccessful have only themselves to blame, no man or group of men caused the problem.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Oh, come on.
Women are just as capable as men in every fashion.
That is unless you posit a thought they don’t like, and then they go off and have the vapors.
/snark