What we’re up against
MadOgre, a blog I read regularly due to his excellent gun articles, stated:
I hate Pit Bulls. I really do. Pit Bulls are nasty creatures. Might as well have a pet fucking alligator. These things should not be pets. I don’t care what people say about them being nice. That’s what they all say after the dog snaps and eats someone. A stray Pit Bull around my house will become a dead Pit Bull collar or no.
I sent him the following email and invited him to peruse my Pet Archives:
You and I agree on many issues but your comment about pit bulls is quite disheartening. I trained police dogs for attack, obedience and drug work for years. Bully type dogs have a high drive and are eager to please.
Most dog attacks are the result of improper treatment, restraint, and socialization. Even more sad is that people who shouldn’t own any dog are often the ones that own pit bulls and then train them to be mean. I can take any dog as a pup and make it a dangerous or a sociable animal.
Also, there is no scientific way to determine what breed any particular dog is. Dogs of molosser stock (which includes pits, american bulldogs, mastiffs, boxers, and dozens of other breeds) all look and behave similarly.
Pit Bulls were also the most popular breed in the US up through the 1950s. Pit Bulls served valiantly in WW1 and WW2. Also, Pits served as Search and Rescue Dogs at the WTC rubble.
Pet ownership is about responsibility and not about breeds of dog. Your comment about how they shouldn’t be pets is similar to the nannyism (particularly with respect to guns) that you rant about. I’m disappointed, after all you’re advocating banning “assault dogs”.
I suppose you can tell I am rather passionate about this topic, you can read more at:
https://saysuncle.com/archives/cat_pets_responsibility.html
Regards,
Mr. Ogre is swayed by the bad press the breed gets. Sadly, most other people who support breed bans are as well. This is a growing problem for pet owners as breed licensing is on the rise. Punish the deed, not the breed.
Update: Ogre responds with:
Bull dogs are one thing… Police dogs one thing… Rotts are one thing…
Rotts and German Sheppards and Dobbermans rarely snap and attack kids.
But Pit Bulls are another thing all together. I despise them.
I don’t dislike any other dog… but Pit Bulls. They can snap and attack in a blink.
Assault Dog? Come on now. An Assault Rifle doesn’t suddenly turn around and shoot the owner or his kids.
If you can handle them – bully for you. Not many people can. Not many people can handle a timber wolf either, but Ranger is doing fine. So I guess maybe I’m a Pot calling out a Kettle
I responded with:
People “despise” guns too.
Fatal dog attack stats: http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).Given that American Bulldogs, Staffordshires and other dogs are routinely lumped in the pit bull category (because they’re all “Bull” dogs), I’d say the numbers are fairly comparable. And your wolf makes the list too. The primary factor seems to be reproductive status of the animal:
“Of the 28 single dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000-2001;
26 were males and 2 were females. Of the 26 males, 21 were found to be intact (the reproductive status of the remaining 5 males dogs could not be determined”You’ll notice also that the overall fatal attacks are very low. 28 out of how many dogs in this country? Surely, you can start to see the parallel between politically incorrect dogs and guns.
I’d even say, to continue your assault rifle analogy, that less proportional number of dogs “suddenly turn” on someone as people accidentally shoot themselves due to negligence or a gun defect. A dog turning on someone or attacking someone is the result of improper training and socialization. Dogs are what people make them to be.
I tend to think I am not changing anyone’s mind. It does occur to me that 5% of fatal attacks are by Wolf Dogs, which I assume means some sort of domesticated wolf. 21% are pit bulls, which likely means any bully breed. But I wonder how many people own domesticated wolves vs. people that own pit bulls. It would stand to reason considerably less. So, statistically speaking, it is possible that domesticated wolves are more likely to kill someone. However, I can’t find stats on wolf ownership, so it’s just a guess.
April 6th, 2004 at 1:13 pm
My pit bull mix is a pushover!!! She wouldn’t hurt a fly! Well, actually, she likes trying to catch flies and bees in her mouth. But she wouldn’t hurt a person!
April 6th, 2004 at 2:23 pm
Ranger is my dog… my wolf. I’ll admit it, he is a killer. He’s a hunter… a predator… I take him up into the mountains and let him hunt rabbits or chucks or whatever else he finds. It’s his Sunday Dinner. After he eats his fill of Peter Cottontail he trots back to me proudly, while licking his lips and smacking.
He knows the difference between his prey animals and children. He loves to play with kids. He’s been neutered and all that… so his aggression is pretty much limited to bunnies and such. Yet he is an awesome protector. From other dogs that stray into our area or a diamond back rattler we had last year. And most importantly the 2 Cougars we had last fall… Ranger kept them at bay when they came to hunt my house cats. Ran off one of them and helped me hunt the other. Few dogs can stand up to a Cougar. I don’t even think he would have given a choice, but he had a duty to perform and he did it with honors.
I still don’t like Pit Bulls.
April 6th, 2004 at 2:30 pm
I’m not telling you to buy one. I am telling you that your biases against them are unfounded. All dogs are killers, predators, hunters. Even poodles/jack russels were bred to hunt. It’s a matter of training them to know not to attack people.
Last week, my politically incorrect dog played soccer with the 6 year old neighbor girl for an hour and a half. She kicked him in the face at least 7 or 8 times. Never once did he act aggressively.
However, i can turn him loose on a wild boar and he’ll gladly catch it.
April 6th, 2004 at 2:51 pm
Boy, I guess my pit-rottie mix, who’s the biggest baby on the freakin’ planet, is a real killer, eh?
It’s remarkable how personal preduices evaporate reasoning.
April 6th, 2004 at 3:10 pm
MadOgre: dogs of all breeds have been known to turn on people on occasion. Pits are no more likely to do so than any other breeds; less so, if anything, due to their history. They can be nasty to other dogs, though, for the same reason.
Don’t like pit bulls? Don’t buy one, then.
April 6th, 2004 at 5:19 pm
Uncle:
But I wonder how many people own domesticated wolves vs. people that own pit bulls. It would stand to reason considerably less. So, statistically speaking, it is possible that domesticated wolves are more likely to kill someone.
I feel the need to point out to you that this line of argumentation sounds suspiciously similar to a line of argumentation I used when I cried BS on comparing gun deaths to car deaths, and making a relative “safety” judgment based on such numbers. I agree with you here, just as I think the logic was sound there. We need more information before we can comment on relative “safety” of various dog breeds.
/math geek
April 6th, 2004 at 11:18 pm
I don’t actually beleive a wolf is necessarily more or less dangerous, I was just making a point about rationalizing biases.
April 7th, 2004 at 7:57 pm
You must consider the fact that most people attacked by pocket pooches will NOT seek medical attention. You don’t want to be the guy reporting a beagle attack and look like a puss.
I swear my inlaw’s yorkie bit me over 40 times by now. At least 3 times a day when I visit.
April 26th, 2004 at 3:19 am
My daughter is four years old and was severely bitten in the face by a full grown german shepard. She went through three hours of plastic surgery and was in intensive care for almost a week. I wasn’t there when it happened but the people that were there said she did nothing to provoke the attack. The sad thing is the dog bit a three year old in the face only two months ago. Why this dog was still alive I don’t know. What triggers attacks in animals such as a german shepard. So now I am a dog hater which sucks because I really like to hunt and have a black lab of my own. What can I do to help my daughter trust dogs again.
April 28th, 2004 at 6:36 pm
I’ve been bitten by a dachsun (sp?) so severely that it required extensive plastic surgery. I was 8. I have been bitten by labs, one australian shepherd, and a poodle. My mother’s shnauzer (sp?) is very aggressive and has bitten all three of us brothers. I own two pits, one male, one female. I have owned the male for 8 years and he loves kids and kids love him. He is so confident and strong, he doesn’t fear them and therefore has no reason to bite. He stands there sniffs them and lets them jump all over him, pull his ears and his tail. He is great with other small dogs as well. He has been attacked by other dogs at dog parks and believe it or not thinks they are playing. He will let it go on for a few minutes until he has had enough biting and noise, then he gives one good pop and they usually stop. He has never broken the skin on me, or other dogs even during rough play. He seems to have a sense about how to use his mouth with jusprudence. Give him a rope to pull on and he will jump over your head to get it, then try to jerk your arm off pulling. If you let go, he holds it up for you to grab again. My female was rescued from abuse. She is sweet, but a little skittish around kids. Please read—-WHEN WE HAVE FRIENDS COME OVER WITH THEIR KIDS, THE FEMALE GOES IN THE KENNEL. She never has bitten or been aggressive, contrary, she hides from kids. I read this as fear and a reason to bite. I don’t play with fire, I put her up. Other owners of all breeds should do the same. Less people would be bitten. Understand how to read your dogs and act appropriately. Don’t try and push a situation, it will blow up in your face. I’m a servicemember trained to be less than friendly in certain situations. Put me in a jam and push my buttons and you may end up with a frown on your face and a tear in your eye. Why do the same to an animal?