Woohoo, gun talk!
First, Insty has very good taste. He, like me, is a Sig man. There is no finer pistol, period. And once you’ve handled one, most other handguns do feel cheap. I have shot many Berettas (who didn’t after seeing Lethal Weapon?) and they are fine guns. This is assuming you buy a newer one, the old ones had an issue in which the slide rail cracked upon discharge causing the slide to fly back and hit people in the face. A number of police and military were injured and killed in the late 80s through early 90s if I recall. I also like Glocks. They’re not as good feeling as Sigs but are as reliable and arguably more durable.
Second, Donald Sensing addresses the Beretta (more to the point, he takes issue with the 9MM round, I believe) as the standard service weapon for the military. I must disagree with the reverend regarding the 9MM’s stopping power. If the army was allowed to issue hollow points, the rounds would be more effective. Hardball ammo in 9MM is the problem. I would say that hardball 45ACP is not particularly effective either when compared to 45ACP jacketed hollow points.
One other disagreement is that there are plenty of cartridges with knockdown power equal to or better than a 45ACP. Like 10MM, 44 Special, 44 Magnum, 50AE, 45GAP, etc. 357 Sig and 40S&W aren’t too shabby but do not compare to 45ACP.
I do agree that the military should be issued 45ACP handguns because the military is using these guns as combat weapons. They are not concealed handguns typically. As such, a Sig P220 would be a fine weapon. Even better would be a Glock 21, which is arguably more durable than the Sig and has a magazine capacity of thirteen vs. the Sigarms’ capacity of seven.
Back to my point about the 9MM: It is a fine round when loaded with various hollow point rounds (which the army can’t do) and there are many smaller guns that shoot 9MM that are ideal for concealed carry. For what it’s worth, the official 9MM load of SayUncle is Winchester Black Talons for my Sig P229; the official 45ACP load of SayUncle is the Remington 185g jacketed hollow point for my Glock 30.
January 1st, 2004 at 9:42 pm
Uncle:
way back in the Dubya
Dubya ‘Nam, I posted that officers should have the option to purchase whatever sidearm they wished (from Uncle Sugar’s short list), as long as the officer could qualify with the issue ammunition: 45ACP.
The load could probably be tweaked, while still observing Geneva protocols, by going to a 200 grain jacketed truncated cone, which leaves the muzzle with a bit more haste, and offers better terminal ballistics than roundnosed FMJ.
This debate has been going on since, say, the US Army was using revolvers and nothing was in metric.
January 2nd, 2004 at 10:34 am
I’ll have to take your word on the ballistic info. The debate has gone on for a while with 5.56 as well. There’s no pleasing everyone.
January 2nd, 2004 at 11:45 pm
I read a post about a month ago on berettaforum.net which linked to an article that indicated that the slide problem with the beretta’s never resulted in a fatality or even a serious injury. The indicated slide breakage happened and resulted in a few minor injuries.
http://www.berettaforum.net/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=005823#000007
January 3rd, 2004 at 9:37 am
Thanks for the info ben. I had heard it several years ago.
January 6th, 2004 at 3:51 pm
First off I have to say I pretty much agree with you, and I’m just picking nits, here.
Me, I’m a fan of the old M1911 design, even though I’m left-handed. IMHO nothing, bar NOTHING points nearly as well.
I’ve always held the Beretta was a POS from the first time I was issued one in ’89.
The military is stuck with hardball, so the 9mm vs. .45 debate is a non-starter. I would be interested to see a scientific comparison between the 200 grain truncated cone load you describe and the 230 grain RN.
Oh, and I disagree with your choice of a pet load, though I wouldn’t volunteer to stand in front of onw when it went off. Mine is the Federal Hydroshok 230 grain JHP +P. Boom.
January 6th, 2004 at 4:01 pm
CavDude,
You may like this chart