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Appendix Carry: What say you?

In the 1990s, when I first started going heeled, there was not a lot of info out there. The concealed carry market was smaller and most shooting rags focused on carry for police and not armed citizens. I wasn’t police. So, I was not about to strap on a duty belt and try to cover it with a parka. I did learn from my dad to get a good holster, so I never really went through that cheap holster phase. As an aside, one thing people don’t think about when buying a new gun is accessories. And one should really buy a quality holster. So, I had a damn fine gun and a decent holster (it was similar to this but without the thumb strap). Well, I strapped it up appendix style because it was convenient; fit my style of dress; was very concealable; and I could manipulate it well.

Then, the internet happened. And I learned that going appendix style was stupid because you could shoot your femoral artery or blow your dick off. I was concerned mostly about blowing my dick off.

Well, apparently appendix carry is a thing again, even among people I actually whose gun advice I take seriously.. There are quite a few pros to this method:

  • Control and retention
  • Faster draw
  • Comfort
  • And a few more that apply only to the tacticoolest operatingest war fighters, such as better CQB something or another.

    But, I’m still worried about the whole blowing your dick off thing, which they say is mitigated by paying attention and doing the uncool thing of looking at your holster before reholstering. But on the draw, when your muscles constrict, this doesn’t seem helpful. Because you’re probably going to be focused on the thing you are about to put holes in. So, blowing your dick off or capping a major artery would make you pretty useless in a gun fight.

    What do you think?

    57 Responses to “Appendix Carry: What say you?”

    1. Mike Says:

      My biological recoil stabilization system is a bit too rotund for appendix carry to be practical.

    2. Jason K Says:

      AIWB is no more dangerous than traditional IWB…..and no one worries about blowing their ass off with IWB holsters. As long as your gun is in good working order, you’re safe either way.

      As for reholstering: I prefer the Michael Bane Method….take the holster off your belt, reholster while you look, and return the entire unit to your belt. Stupidly simple & supremely safe.

      I’m also quite rotund, but I have no problem wearing my .38 snub AIWB. The trick is to find a holster that rides low….as in grip-at-the-waistline low. My Desantis tuckable holster works well for this.

    3. aerodawg Says:

      I’ve tried appendix but don’t care for it. Carrying at the 3 or 5 is just much more comfortable to me..

    4. Barry Says:

      Not comfortable at all. I mean, yeah, I could stand to drop 10-15lbs, but I’m not that porkulent. I don’t see how anybody, except for the super-lean, super-trim guys, can do it for any extended period of time. I carry one of several small pistols IWB at 3, 5, or 12, depending on the clothes and the activity with no problems. Even my Beretta Bobcat, which carries fine in a pocket, doesn’t work AIWB for me.

      And, I don’t want to blow my dick off.

    5. pdb Says:

      AIWB *is* more dangerous, simply because nobody’s ever bled to death in minutes from a hole in their butt cheek. A femoral artery wound will straight up kill you before EMTs even get dispatched.

      That said there’s no denying the speed and comfort advantages of AIWB for some people. If you’re a fat fuck like me it won’t work so well.

      IMHO AIWB is best done with an external hammer DA gun like a SIG or H&K or 3rd gen Smith (which get extra points for being able to put on safe while you holster) and a holster designed for AIWB. I think PHLster has the best holsters for junk carry at the moment.

    6. mikee Says:

      Back when I wasn’t as fat as I am now, I tried various locations for carry. IWB 3 to 5 o’clock seemed most comfortable for my daily routine.

      Appendix and SOB carry had issues of my Glock 19 poking me when I sat down.

      I never tried a Milt Sparks Summer Special under the armpit holster because I knew I wasn’t Sonny Crockett nor Dirty harry, and I also knew my Glock 19 wasn’t cool enough to ride where a Bren 10 or .44 Magnum S&W should go.

      I would much rather graze my butt cheek than perforate my thigh with a negligent discharge.

    7. nk Says:

      At home, in the gun safe, is the safest way.

      Sorry. I was skinny as a snake all my life and inside the pants just behind the hipbone was the most comfortable (and the gun did not stick out anymore than the hipbone did). Plus I’ve cut myself with every knife I’ve owned so, yeah, where that muzzle was pointing at was always a concern.

    8. SteveG Says:

      Even if I didn’t have dunlop disease* I wouldn’t be comfortable with it. Trainers like Rob Pincus make a compelling argument for it but it’s just not for me.

      *my belly dun lopped over my belt

    9. Derek Says:

      I have a G-Code AIWB holster for my Glock 19 and Shield. The Shield just disappears for me and the Glock is really not much different. I am on the skinny side so there is that. When I holster the Shield I use the manual safety, look it in the holster, and stand with my same side leg back with my hips tilted back (It kind of looks like the catch position in an olympic lift). I think I got that from Todd. Not sure where I learned how to holster like that. I feel comfortable but am always aware of the potential dick shooting incident…

    10. Tam Says:

      A lot of folks I respect carry that way, and I grok their arguments.

      I don’t, mostly because it’s not comfortable for me, but also because I’m a butterfingers.

    11. M Gallo Says:

      I am trying this out mostly because I’d like to have a formulated opinion on the matter for when students ask me, and I also like the list of “pros,” and don’t mind the “cons” too much. That said, if you fuck up, you will die instead of getting a racing stripe, but the mission drives the gear train. OWB at 3:00 seems to just work well for me, but AIWB so far is MUCH better in a car, which is most of the time I’m worried about being attacked (I work in an awful neighborhood).

    12. Alan556 Says:

      If I was looking for training and the instructor promoted this type of carry I would not use then.

      I would NEVER BREAK RULE 2 by choice.
      Please review rule 2.

      RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

    13. Rivrdog Says:

      It depends on the clothing. If I’m wearing overalls, which have a side-pocket opening to the inside, I wear my Walther PP in a slim Bianchi #19A thumb-break, on a separate belt, under the hogwashers but over my boxers. The holster is a left-hander, with the belt threaded over the outside, making it into a RH carry. The Walther has a decocker/safety, of course, and the trigger pull is very heavy for the first round. The rig rides comfortably, is almost un-noticeable on the body. My biggest worry is that my body generates a lot of perspiration down there, so I have to unload and wipe down the pistol each time I take off those clothes. I have not tried my “hogwasher carry” with any other pistol or with a revolver. I would not do it without a thumb-break retention strap.

    14. Stuart the Viking Says:

      When I first started carrying, I wanted to carry AIWB. It made sense to me that it would be concealable and easy access. Then I tried it once. Nope. So uncomfortable. I’m sure that if I had tried to stick with it I would have quit carrying a long time ago.

      It took me a couple years and a whole box of holsters to finally give up and start sewing my own. The ones I bought were never quite right for me. Now I have comfortable holsters for about everything I own, hand made by myself, just in case I want to carry it. Sure, they don’t look as beautiful as they could, but they work for me. I never did get AIWB to work though. Guess I’m just not shaped for it.

      s

    15. Blackwing1 Says:

      As another member of the species with Dunlop’s disease, AIWB just plain isn’t going to work for me. For a little over a decade I’ve been carrying in a Don Hume IWB clip-on with thumb-strap (for a compact 1911) that sits just aft of 3:00-ish. With luck, if I do something really stupid while drawing, I’ll only scare the crap out of myself.

      But I do own a “Miami Classic” shoulder rig, which is extremely comfortable when driving long distances. I feel like a complete ass (if not a “Jackass”) when putting it on (you can mutter, “Bond…James Bond” to yourself just to make things worse), and I’m always careful to raise my off-arm’s elbow way up when holstering into the thing. But if I carry to the range with that, I end up turning 180-degrees away from the targets to draw, and then keep it pointed downrange while turning around. Not what I’d do in a social situation, but it’s the only way I can NOT sweep someone else on the line with it.

      I don’t really see an advantage to appendix carry over strong-side, and I do see the major disadvantage of pointing a muzzle at myself. So even if I were still svelte and trim, it probably wouldn’t be an option for me.

    16. TicTac Says:

      My J-Frame is the only handgun I carry AIWB. It’s small enough to be comfortable and conceal well. But more importantly: You have to be pretty stupid to fire a DAO revolver by mistake. Mine is an old Model 36 with a bobbed hammer. I put my thumb where the hammer spur used to be while re-holstering. I also take my time doing it.

      I would never carry my Glock 27 AIWB.

    17. Terry Says:

      I’ve been carrying a G19/23 or G17, in the AIWB position, for about ten years (and a gov’t model 1911 for a few of those years). It used to be that quality holsters for that position were very difficult to find but not anymore so that whatever your body type and shape, you can find one for you (ride height vs concealment is where each individual will have to find his own compromise).

      For me, AIWB is, first of all, much more comfortable than any other carry method (and I started carrying, like you, in the 90s with a strong side position). Second, as you basically point out, the gun is basically right where my core is, which makes drawing the gun from any position (except flat on my stomach) quite easy (it really shines when sitting in a car), and protecting the gun is also made easier by this location (much easier than if the gun is a 3 o.clock).

      The draw tends be faster but that is entirely dependent on how fast one can lift the covering garment and one should practice that one handed; it’s very fast to lift the garment with two hands and present the gun but life is not the habit of making things easier for us (with practice one can be just as fast as with two hands but one must practice).

      As to reholstering and the associated dangers, one instructor said it best (I cant remember who):”If you fuck up, you die”. Extensive practice remediates a lot of that. As with all approaches to concealed carry it’s a trade off, physically, practically and psychologically; for me, the level of attention and practice necessary for carrying AIWB as safely as possible is worth it; for others it may not be.

      P.S. the CCC Shaggy works best for me. It’s an excellent holster you might want to look into.

    18. chris Says:

      Forget it.

      That is way too close to Mohammed for my comfort.

      I carry a revolver (7rd) in my front pocket and a Glock in my LL Bean carry bag.

      I have had to draw from this position before and it was quite natural.

      I would never dream of putting a semi-auto so close to my package.

    19. MattCFII Says:

      I pretty much started AIWB when I first CCWed, and now have gone back to AIWB after IWB for about a year and a half. I’ve taken two Mercop class and it is amazing not only how fast AIWB is but also how much retention is improved. With IWB, you grab and control the elbow of the person drawing you can easily stop them from being able to get the gun out of the holster. It was eye opening how easy to stop an IWB draw can be and since your elbow is in front of your hip with AIWB it is much harder to stop.

      AIWB does rock for the car as mentioned.

      I am not a believer in no look re-holstering (and nobody that AIWBs should). One thing I’ve noticed is that is actually easier to confirm a clear AIWB holster. I will often catch a undershirt IWB or shirt OWB in the holster. So in some ways re holster in is safer. I also use the Bane recommend pull out the holster (which is easier AIWB) most times I have a round in the chamber.

      If I ND, I think it would take my right testicle, but in most cases it would miss my femoral. I also carry an ankle medkit “holster” that that has a tourniquet and QuikClot. That’s part because of the risk of AIWB, but it is far more due having higher odds of needing a medkit to save life than my gun.

      Honestly, putting male bravado aside, in the bigger picture I would prefer to lose a testicle than send a round through my foot/knee/shoot off a toe like with a single point sling/pocket carry could cause. I hope you hardcore rule-2-even-in-the-holster followers don’t use those methods ;) I would still have lefty and there is a lot of long term rehab issues with foot/knee injury. Hehe and as much as I’m giving you guys a hard time, part of the reason I stopped AIWB, I had a hard time emotionally AIWBing with infants/toddlers underfoot even though rationally I know I have a good holster that will do its job as long as I do mine.

      I would really like someone to find cases of a ND with a good AIWB holster that killed someone hitting the femoral. It wouldn’t surprise me that there are some out there but with how many of us are AIWBing, it should be an epidemic to hear some of you talk.

      AIWBing was a little more comfortable when I was skinnier, but even now at 5’9″ 200lbs I can find a pretty comfortable position, it just prints slightly more in light concealment. But it is less than it would of with the first gen AIWBs due to new tuck mods (tuck not in the sense of shirt but in tucking the butt of the gun to the body). Comfortable AIWB is all about finding just the right place between 12-1:30 that works and a holster that supports that position. It can sometimes only be a “10 minute” difference that brings a big change in comfort.

    20. 4strokes Says:

      I am both short and round. A combination that makes IWB tough with anything other than a mouse gun. I have carried these mice AIWB for a long time until I heard Michael Bane suggest moving the gun to the other side of my belly. Set in sort of a canted cross-draw.
      Now in this mode the gun is just as quick for presentation as AIWB and just as comfortable. But now the muzzle points to outside of my left leg and away from my femoral artery and my man junk.

    21. Matthew Carberry Says:

      I still don’t understand how you sit down with a decent barrel length. I wear my trousers closer to my true waist (belly button) than most younger people but the bend of my body when I sit is still right below my belt line and there’s meat right there.

      I can see it for walking or standing all day, but not driving or office.

    22. Will Brown Says:

      My personal direct experience with firearms only goes back to the mid-1960′s, but my admittedly hazy memory of this type of carry was that it was for DA revolvers, SA revolvers with an empty chamber under the hammer or small semi-auto pistols carried Condition 3. Which was all a part of the concealed carry concept of a century-or-so ago; a concealed weapon was implicitly assumed to be intended as a surreptitious option for personal defense. No “fast draw” capability was expected, or even considered desirable as a safety measure. If the situation warrented a more pro-active weapons stance, you readied your gun for that circumstance beforehand or cussed yourself for not paying closer attention to your surroundings.

      I haven’t made any sort of historical research effort on this, but this is my memory of what the “old timers” (my grandfather and his age cohort) said when I first started getting seriously interested in guns back when. I personally have occasionally worn my S&W 431PD in a belly holster at 11 o’clock for a r/h draw, but I’m a few kilo’s away from that option being what anyone other than the Texas legislature would call “concealed” today.

    23. KM Says:

      I have used AIWB many, many years.
      It’s one way to eliminate the “bump frisk”. I have proud beer gut…all it does is create a tent to hide the gun profile.

      Push your pelvis out, (ala Derek) look at what you’re doing and reholstering isn’t as scary as some make it out to be.
      *For me* there is NEVER a need to speed reholster or do it without thinking and watching what the hell is going on. As noted, a low riding holster is key…and I DO carry a G27.

    24. A Critic Says:

      I second the motion for the CCC Shaggy, I carry a .40 Walther P99 and it’s comfortable, fast, and invisible.

    25. HCL3 Says:

      I carry a P226 every day AIWB. Getting a holster that is specifically designed for AIWB is key. The JM Custom Kydex, CCC Shaggy, and Dark Star Gear holsters are all good options for Kydex. For leather I like the JRC Holsters AIWB-CDA. The 5-shot leather SME is supposed to be good too, but I’ve never tried it. I carry a spare mag at 11:30 in a Desbiens Gunleather reverse cant pouch.

      I see the advantages of AIWB as being: (1) speed, (2) easy to draw from while seated or on your back, (3) easier to retain the gun than having it on your hip, (5) easier to conceal a full size pistol

    26. Patrick Says:

      The wife and I are short and in good shape. She wanted to AIWB – without even knowing what to call – and I helped her setup (unloaded). Then I did the same.

      AIWB won’t work for us. If you are short, and wear pants with a waistline below the belly-button then you start losing comfort. Nobody likes a gun in their crotch. I guess if we went all fuddy-duddy and lifted our waistlines it might work.

      So short, trim people might want to try it before they buy it. Especially if they wear low-waisted pants.

    27. Eric Says:

      I’m coming around to AIWB. A very good USPSA shooter of my acquaintance carries a G34 AIWB. The same G34 he shoots in USPSA and yes, he competes with the exact same rig he carries. If he can compete and carry with a G34 AIWB maybe it’s something I should be considering for my P226 or P320.

    28. Paul Kisling Says:

      I don’t carry inside the waistband. My crotch gets hot enough without having an additional source of sweat and chafing at the appendix, thank you very much.

      I riveted a trigger type holster to the inside of my belt and just slide my glock 20 between my pants and belt. Its pretty cool literally.. For open carrying it works great, with my shirt tucked in of course. Have not found a cop yet that will accused me of concealing a weapon.

      As for shooting my dick off? Well don’t masturbate while pulling the trigger on your pistol… That is her job… Pretty simple.

    29. Paul B Says:

      I am currently carrying a Kel-Tec PF9 with the little spring clip so I don’t use a holster right now. It is comfortable except when seated.

      I am currently carrying it in condition 2 so I am not worried about blowing some part of me off. Holster slow and keep your finger off the bang switch and things should be good.

      My right arm is a little weak when I go behind my back so the IWB method is not used.

      I have a shoulder holster for a Bersa 380 and was carrying that, but I got a good deal on the kel tec.

    30. Matthew Says:

      I know personally of two different individuals who had negligent discharges in their pants (insert joke).

      The first was walking into a very hip restaurant somewhere in Guatemala and was carrying in the appendix fashion when somehow or another he managed to shoot himself with his .45.

      He managed to get to the parking lot with his girlfriend before he passed out. His brother, whom I know well, told me he damn near bled to death and this despite not hitting anything major. He spent a couple of weeks in the hospital, had to have a skin graf off his ass and has on going pain issues all these years later.

      The second gentleman I know was strong sided in-the-waistband carrying when he too managed to let a round go off from his Glock. He yelled something, had a rather decent amount of bruising and some powder buried into his skin, put a neat hole into his pant leg and floor. Aside from being woefully embarrassed and sore for a week that’s pretty much where his negligent discharge story ended.

      The moral of the story is, is you muzzle perpendicular to something or parallel.

      Many folks do appendix carry. They’re better than men then me.

    31. weambulance Says:

      Well it seems more likely I’d blow a ball off than my dick, but I’m not too worried about it.

      I’m way too fat to carry appendix right now, but once upon a time, 55 pounds ago, I carried a 4″ 1911 or Glock 19 like that every day. If I ever see the underside of 200 pounds again, AIWB is how I plan to carry in winter. It sucks trying to draw strongside with four or five layers on, and with AIWB I can still get my gun out with my jacket zipped, so there are significant advantages. Strongside in an MTAC is still the most comfortable way for me to carry in summer, and I can’t imagine AIWB would be great on a motorcycle (not that anything is, really).

    32. Paul Says:

      Uncle,

      Just use a DAO Centennial .38/.357.

      Or get a Glock 26 and a NY-1 trigger.

      Then KYFFOTFT till the gun is out and levelled at your opponent.

      I have both and they both work for appendix carry.

      Simple, no?

    33. David Says:

      No, plenty of “masters” have put holes in things they didn’t mean to. Rules get broken under stress, and not under stress, too. Maybe you will, maybe you won’t, but don’t point your gun at something you aren’t willing to destroy, yes?

      I like my manly bits and femoral arteries in the shape they are in, thank you, a few fractions of a second be damned, I carry a gun to be safer, not to be less safe by my mode of carry.

    34. cm smith Says:

      I’ve been virtually alone in preaching this for several years: Jeff Cooper was wrong in describing how Bruce Nelson carried his Summer Special. Bruce (Pistolero, 1980) called his position “forward of hip”, rather than appendix, at about 2:00 O’clock with the muzzle slightly to the rear. This gives the same advantages except for the ability to draw with a locked wrist and keeps the muzzle clear of the body.

      Cooper promoted his version of forward-rake appendix position for safety. “The appendix position (forward of the hip on the strong side, with the muzzle raked about 15° forward) is both faster and safer than the kidney position, but it is a bit more obvious.” (1965)

    35. MrSatyre Says:

      I’m really interested by the comments regarding IWB carry versus OWB carry. I’ve tried many different IWB holsters, and simply can’t get comfortable with any of them. I always feel like there’s a cancerous growth on my hip, and the bulge is incredibly obvious. So, I OWB carry. Occasionally I appendix carry as the print under an untucked shirt isn’t as obvious (on me, anyway), plus when sitting in a cramped movie theater chair, I can get to it easier.

    36. SPQR Says:

      Back in the ’80′s saw an OWB holster in appendix position cause an ND and a groin injury due to poor trigger guard coverage. Won’t carry it that position myself.

    37. Paul Kisling Says:

      The rules.
      1. Don’t touch it.
      2. Don’t play with it.
      3. Take it out unless you are going to use it.
      4. Don’t show it to people.

      All four of these rules will keep accidental discharges away….

    38. Paul Kisling Says:

      oops. Meant: Don’t take it out unless you are going to use it.

      Damn.

    39. Sid Says:

      “somehow or another he managed to shoot himself with his .45″

      Well, somehow or another.. no holster or carry position would have kept him safe. We cannot have the world coated in bubblewrap.

      No method or position of holtering a handgun is safe from NDs. I think training and practice are required for any holster method. I recently purchased a pocket gun and promptly went to the range for training and familiarization. Holstering and positioning were as much a part of the training as shooting. A good holster that covers the trigger is really more of a neccessity than most would think.

    40. chris Says:

      Should be appendage carry – not appendix carry.

    41. SPQR Says:

      Sid and Paul, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of something.

      Yes, one should follow those rules to avoid an ND. The question is not “Safe or Not Safe”. The question is whether or not a particular practice presents a specific danger when and if somehow those rules break down and you have that ND anyway.

      Because that happens in real life.

      And that’s why I look at a carry mode and ask myself, if there is an ND in this mode, where does that bullet go?

    42. Lyle Says:

      I say carry how ever you want, and if you don’t mind having a gun butt or hammer spur jammed into your gut every time you sit down, cool. Let us know how it goes.

      The only way I’ve been able to carry a full-sized revolver, if that even counts, anywhere near to apex carry (that made any sense to me) was to have it pretty far off to the left side, for a right-hand, almost cross-draw, setup outside the waistband.

    43. Bubblehead Les Says:

      Tried it when I had to do a lot of sitting once (Delivery Driver), but it never felt comfortable. And now that I’m Fatter, don’t think it would work for me. But I will be checking out Shoulder Holsters at Indy, as long as they are Muzzle Down. Think that will help when I have a long stretch of Driving ahead of me.

    44. lucusloc Says:

      @Alan556

      How do you carry then? Because every carry method I can think of is likely to cover some part of your body (or someone elses body)at some point or another. What it comes down to, I think, is at some point you have to trust your gear to keep everything safe. *That* in turn means regular inspections for function (does the holster *really* protect the trigger, or do you just assume it does?). This is coupled with strict training and use (never re-holster without looking, etc.) to ensure you know the safest way to put the firearm into use. Accepting carry manes that in certain situations, such as a properly holstered firearm, I must assume it is safe.

    45. Geodkyt Says:

      Lucus –

      I can’t pseak for Alan556, but when I IWB, an ND would result in a minor flesh wound. An ND while AIWB would result in a maiming or fatal wound. BIG difference bewteen a racing stripe that leaves an amusing (in the futur) scar and gelding myself, smashing my femur at the top, or transecting my femoral artery too high for ANY chance to stop the bleeding.

      So, what “I am willing to destroy” has become a choice of “my pride, my pants, and a few square inches of skin” versus “my life”.

    46. Will Says:

      A variation on AIWB would be one of those groin bag type holsters (Thunderwear?). The draw is slower, but concealment seems to be better, and it MAY be safer during the draw, if done as a holster sales guy showed me.
      This guy sells in funshows, and carries a longslide (G34?) in one for demo. Wears jeans just for this purpose at his booth.
      Sucks in his gut, reaches in with thumb and forefinger, and plucks it out until the grip is above the belt, then wraps the rest of his hand around the grip. Since his trigger finger is occupied in pulling the gun up by holding the frame/slide, this seems to greatly lessen the chance of touching the trigger prematurely. I’m not sure I would carry a Glock in a soft holster like this, though. BTW, he is about 5’7″, 130 lbs, and has no problem sitting with this rig.

      Oh, yeah, just remembered, Lee uses a NY1 trigger spring with the light connector bar, which gives the trigger a sort of revolver DA feel.

    47. bogie Says:

      Well, I don’t have any man-parts to blow off, so that is a non-issue. I carry appendix when I absolutely, positively cannot risk a “flash” (certain placed I’ve worked and in the State of MA, where I am legal to carry concealed only). I’ve never worried about blowing a hole in my femoral artery. Maybe I’m just stupid but I have to violate 2 of the rules to have something bad happen while I’m sitting and I just don’t see myself quick-drawing while I’m bellied up to my desk or strapped in my seatbelt. And, I’m a big believer that if it is safe enough to holster, it is safe enough for me to look at the dang holster. If cops have arrived, they want the gun on the ground, not back on my person.

      The only problem is that now I have trouble finding pants that aren’t hip height (instead of waist height), which means even my small Taurus is not comfortable to carry that way because it literally digs into my leg when I sit. Ah, the trials of being a woman in a fashion conscious world.

      Fortunately, right now I carry my Sig behind my hip because I don’t have to worry about a “flash”, so it’s not a huge problem at this time.

    48. NotClauswitz Says:

      Very-very interesting discussion. As a newly minted CCW I’ve never even considered AIWB – and now back again with a scooter I’m wondering what is best for Moto-Carry – and how to NOT muzzle my passenger-wife. Shoulder-holster muzzle down?

    49. Pignock Says:

      I’m also a newly minted CC carrier. I bet we’re both from the same state. In my very limited experience (3 weeks everywhere and about 3 months just at home, here is what I’ve found to work for me:

      I’m 5’9″ and weighed 205 this morning. I have restricted mobility in my right arm which limits how far back I can reach.

      I’ve been carrying two different J frames in a Desantis Sof-tuck at about the 1:30 position with zero problems regarding comfort. When I place the holster on, I make sure the single clip is jammed against the left side of the first belt loop on my pants’ right side. The revolvers match the crease in my hip/gut and cause no problems. The air weight 442 stays put but the stainless 640 tends to wander a small amount.

      The only problem I’ve encountered so far is when practicing at the range or dry fire, after about three draws I have to stop and retuck my t shirt to prevent trigger guard fouling.

      One more thing…Illinois has a bunch of carry restrictions. It’s a lot easier to “degun” in a car from AIWB.

    50. AntiCitizenOne Says:

      I’m too thin to carry strong sides, so I have to use AIWB.

    51. M Gallo Says:

      Alan556 your close mindedness has been noted. I prefer to not teach close minded or otherwise stubborn people (often referred to by other students as “that guy”) so your proposal seems acceptable to me.

      When you are wearing a gun, the muzzle is always pointed somewhere, and rule 2 is constantly broken during proper holstered carry. This only becomes an issue with bad gear, or during manipulations (drawing or holstering). Good guns in good holsters do not “go off.”

    52. LKP Says:

      I hate to tell you this but you can carry behind the hip, have a negligent dishcharge, have the bullet travel through vital organs and still shoot your dick off. Not likely, but still possible. So your advice to keep your finger off the booger switch is still good advice.

    53. Kristophr Says:

      I think an appendix is too squishy and icky to use as a weapon.

      I’d rather carry a pistol.

    54. Daniel Says:

      I’ve been carrying AIWB for years. The main danger is shooting yourself when drawing while seated in a pressure situation. My estimation is that is most likely in a car. Carrying strong-side presents a little less danger in this specific situation, because while you _can_ draw and present while seated without covering yourself at all, I’m talking about a _pressure situation_ where you are likely to cover yourself drawing from strong side anyway. I’ll concede that it is less likely carrying strong-side in that specific situation than AIWB, but still possible given the pressure. As other’s have mentioned, practice, and more practice, mitigates this issue with either carry method.

      Drawing under pressure in a standing position is a non-issue, the muzzle is already away from my body on the draw, and it never crosses it during presentation. For this situation, I believe that AIWB is actually _safer_, as no part of my body is ever muzzled on presentation.

      As far as re-holstering, I can’t think of a situation where I would _have_ to do that while seated. I never re-holster while seated. I’ve practiced-into-habit re-holstering with my strong side leg back, my weak side leg forward, so there is no chance of shooting myself in the leg while re-holstering. Even then, I always look at the holster (why would I re-holster if I can’t afford to look down for a few moments to carefully ensure I’m not going to ND?).

      I’m not worried about the gun “just going off” in my holster and hitting my femoral artery. I carry a reliable gun in good working order in a good (kydex) holster. My current holster is the Raven Concealment ACR. The likely-hood of the gun going off while holstered is well-balanced with the ease/speed of presentation in almost any position, along with the ability to counter the elbow lock maneuver that others have mentioned, along with comfort.

      I’m overweight, but not massively so. I wear my belt _above_ my belly-bulge, and my body shape is such that there is a hollow between my belly bulge and my chest that the butt of the gun naturally goes into. As you might imagine body shape has a lot to do with how comfortable a carry method is for a particular person, and not everything works for everybody. However, just because you’re fat doesn’t mean that it won’t be comfortable, it depends on your shape and where you put your belt that matters the most.

      I’ve drawn and presented 10′s of thousands of times over the years, thousands of those while seated, and hundreds and hundreds of those times while seated, I’ve never once ND’d into my body. That’s the real sauce for any carry method, practice, practice, practice.

    55. Daniel Says:

      * and hundreds and hundreds of those times while _under pressure_

    56. Skip Says:

      Fuck that. A.E Nelson 58H shoulder rig!
      Farmer Frank turned me on to them.
      Been packin’ for years, comfortably,safely, very fast presentation, summer or not.

    57. Sid Says:

      SPQR,

      I enjoy this forum. Thank you for responding. But I do not fundamentally misunderstand the issue.

      Negligent discharges are just that. Negligence. Predicting negligence is not practical. What does someone do under stress? Exactly what they have practiced until muscle memory has set. Concealed carry requires practice for any position. Shoulder holstering close to your heart. OWB close to your femoral artery. AIWB close to your other femoral artery.

      Unless you are only considering ankle holsters, you are running the risk of holstering your handgun near a vital organ at all times.

    Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.

    Uncle Pays the Bills


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