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If you don’t know the law, make it up

29 Responses to “If you don’t know the law, make it up”

  1. Motor-T Says:

    But, nobody gets arrested for accidental exposure. That’s a lie made up by the gun lobby.

  2. Andrew Says:

    As a concealed carry permit holder myself, I’ll say the driver could have avoided the whole situation by being up-front about being a CCP holder. When pulled over by a police officer, what is wrong with simply saying, “As a courtesy to you officer, I just wanted to let you know that I am a legal concealed carry permit holder and have my sidearm on my right hip. How would you like us to proceed?” Simply saying something like that could have de-escalated the whole situation.

  3. Bill Says:

    Is there a duty to inform in Florida?

    If not that was ridiculous. He escalated that way too fast.

  4. Dave Says:

    Such high quality language from the Deputy.

    The driver seems like he’s the sharpest tool. Then again, he’s driving a 20 year old astrovan and live in FL.

  5. BenC Says:

    If he had told him he would have went into his overreaction sooner.

  6. Barron Barnett Says:

    I’m with BenC on this one. In my experience cops that react like this will use any excuse to do so. Informing them results in them going into overdrive merely earlier.

    Best option is, 1) Stay in your car. 2) Have wallet, registration etc. at easy access (I put it my wallet in the cup holder and the registration/insurance in my visor)

    If he had stayed in his car, the accidental exposure would have never happened.

  7. BenC Says:

    FL Law
    Must Inform Officer Immediately on Contact By Law?
    “NO”
    790.06 …. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the
    licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and
    proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this
    subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court

  8. Moriarty Says:

    There is no duty to inform in Florida.

    Further:

    It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.

    Given the death threats issued by the deputy, his agency would be wise to put him in an administrative slot where he has no access to weapons or the general public. If he’s ever involved in a shooting, a good plaintiff’s attorney will use this video to show that: a) He’s ignorant of statute, of mercurial character and demonstrates poor judgement, all insufficient to the duties of a peace officer, and b) that his agency knew or should have known this and failed in their obligations with both inadequate training and by retaining him.

    He’s a liability now and the bell can’t be unrung. The Sheriff keeps him on patrol at his peril.

  9. LauraB Says:

    That’s why I prefer Minnesota’s law. It’s a permit to carry; you can carry openly or concealed and they can’t pull this nonsense.

  10. Anon Says:

    Florida Carry pushed for open carry during last year’s legislative session. State representatives and senators decided the “…briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person…” language was “good enough.”

    No, it’s not. This crap has been going on in Florida for years, and adding the phrase above hasn’t fixed anything. Law enforcement officers, either deliberately or in ignorance of the statute, continue to prey on the citizens.

    I hope the motorist retains an attorney who sues the genitals off the Citrus County Sheriff’s Office, and videos like this get delivered to every legislator in Tallahassee.

  11. Bill Says:

    Thanks for the replies, all.

    My internal reaction to this can’t be put in public. That guy should not be walking around with a gun after making a threat like that. His mental health needs to be assessed.

    Anon, I think it’s already occurred if this video is public. It looks like a dashcam without timestamps.

  12. Doug Campbell Says:

    What was the name of the officer? I’d like to see his name published so a Google search will tie him to this video.
    Also, I’d like to know the follow-up to this false arrest.

  13. SayUncle Says:

    Andy Cox, in the text at the link.

  14. Laughingdog Says:

    @Doug,

    His name is “Officer Roid Rage”. Can’t you tell from the video? ;)

  15. SteveA Says:

    Damn, I like most cops but this guy needs to be shot in the head.

  16. Rob Crawford Says:

    Did this guy used to work in Canton, OH?

  17. Dave Says:

    His name certainly isn’t captain obvious. That name was already taken by a previous commenter.

  18. Brad Says:

    Dash cams. Cell phone cameras. YouTube. We live in a completely different media environment compared to 1994, the last high water mark of the anti-gun crusade. The confrontation in Florida we see here is an example of that difference.

    Because we are able to share information amongst our side so rapidly and effectively I have high hopes that the current gun-control offensive will indeed turn out to the last gasp of the gun-control crusade.

  19. Divemedic Says:

    Andrew, I used to inform cops that I was carrying.
    I have carried a concealed weapon for 25 years, as a resident of four states. I always thought that it would be prudent to inform officers that I came in contact with that I was carrying a concealed weapon. Until 2001, that is.

    That was the year that I was pulled over by an Orange County Sheriff’s Deputy Sergeant for running a stop sign. He told me to step out of the car, and I handed him my license, registration, and concealed weapons permit, and told him “Just so you don’t get nervous, I want to let you know that I am carrying a concealed weapon.” The conversation went like this:

    Deputy Sergeant: (puts hand on gun) “You move and I will kill you where you stand. You wanna try me? I bet I’m faster.”

    DM “I was just letting you know, so that you wouldn’t be nervous.”

    DS “Do I look nervous to you, boy?”

    DM “No.”

    DS “I can’t believe that they let dumb assholes like you carry a gun.”

    DM “What’s your problem?”

    DS “You are. Please, make one move, so I can have an excuse.”

    The rest of the conversation was just a productive. He didn’t even arrest me or write a ticket. Ever since, I no longer inform them, especially since Florida doesn’t have a duty to inform. It isn’t worth the risk of running into the wrong cop.

  20. ATLien Says:

    I’d hate to get in a situation like that, Divemedic. When you’re courteous and polite to someone that is essentially your own employee, and you get treated like that…I would kinda want to put him down like the rabid dog he obviously is.

  21. Sebastian not the blogger Says:

    I had a cop say once he didn’t mind me carrying (it was VA, he already knew I had a permit thanks to the DMV) since “my life was in my hands.”

    Wasn’t wild about that and chuckled to myself at his presumptuousness, but the rest of went well. But from then on since there is no duty to inform in VA I resolved that the answer to the question was always going to “nope, no gun, thanks for asking” during routine traffic stops.

  22. Andrew Says:

    Divemedic,

    There’s always that possible but the 2 times I’ve been pulled over had gone over pretty well. I just haven’t run into an ass of an officer yet to ruin my party. Last time the officer and I even got into a discussion about shooting ranges and how we both carried Springfields. Got off with just a warning that time.

    The way I see and expect it, eventually every person runs into a jerk cop… just as every cop runs into a jerk citizen.

  23. Seerak Says:

    I’ve heard, but haven’t confirmed, that one of Nevada HP versus Las Vegas Metro has a definite preference to be informed, and the other has a definite preference not to be. The actual law is “no duty to inform”.

    No idea about other NV LE agencies — though I do understand why North Las Vegas cops might not trust state assemblymen for the next little while.

  24. TigerStripe Says:

    “I don’t care if you have a permit or not.”

    Texas has a duty to inform and I have not carried on my body while inside a vehicle, I only holster my pistol upon exiting my vehicle when I arrive at my destination. Every time I have been stopped and I informed the officer I am asked where my pistol is and the officer removes the mag and ejects the round in the chamber.

    My problem with this video and similar situations is that the officer is supposed to be there for my safety, I’m not there for his safety.

    TS

  25. TIM Says:

    Well He could have avoided the situation by staying in his van. Anytime somone bails out of there stopped vehicle just promotes a suspicious feeling to the officer. But I must say this cop was a little bit over the top. I dont believe it says you have to wear clothing that with full bent over situations that the weapon still not be visible.

  26. BobS Says:

    I’m with Divemedic. In a town just down the road from me we have an officer that delights in prone-ing out anyone with a CCL just on general principles. I can’t wait until the city residents get the opportunity to make a tremendous contribution to someones retirement fund over the practice.

    In Fla your CCL is NOT tied in the database to your DL so there is no indication at the beginning of the stop. I have absolutely NO way to tell if I drew “officer friendly” or “office a-hole” when I am stopped. My default position is to assume a-hole until proven otherwise.

    I can’t wait until this video is shown in the next legislative session as the main reason that we need Constitutional Carry to stop this nonsense.

    And as far as jerk cops and jerk citizens go……. The difference is a jerk citizen isn’t authorized to shoot your a** and get a pass because they “followed dept procedure”.

  27. BobS Says:

    As for exiting the vehicle. I will only do so when requested and I will LOCK it as I exit. LEs do NOT have my permission to enter or search my vehicle.

    Given the proliferation of examples of anti-CCL cops like this guy I’m seriously rethinking mentioning CCL to one once I have exited the vehicle as well. I’m about through with being anything but correct.

    Don’t even start with “there are always bad apples”. If the supposedly vast majority of cops don’t want to be tared with this image then THEY better step up to the plate and start thinning their own screwed-up herd.

    And “if you don’t have anything to hide…” is a stupid position for a free person to take. Especially with a-holes like THIS in positions of authority.

  28. Concordshootout Says:

    All I know is that most of the dumb jock bullies in my high school became cops. Characters are already in most molded in concrete by that time. I would have kept my mouth shut, asked for a lawyer, the guy was not read his rights, he was not asked if his car could be searched, his wife was removed from her property (vehicle) for no reason. In other words, his civil rights were grossly violated and the officer displayed behaviour unbecoming of a public servant. I think a couple of million dollars would make everything all right!

  29. William Wynn Says:

    About a month or two ago at night I was “pulled” By A Brevard County Deputy on Grissom road Cocoa. As he walked up to the car I got out my DL and CCW, and THEN placed both hands at the top of the steering wheel. He took the two and ask where the firearm was, told him where (between seats)All he said was please leave it there…fair nough. He told me of the out head lite, wrote me a warning and without delay sent me on.
    I have in my family a GA. Trooper and Orange County Deputy and I hate to hear of these kind of things.

Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.

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