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May 13th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
Open carry advocates need to understand this:
This isn’t 1885. Like it or not there is stigma attached to firearms that is now multi generational. You may not realize it, but YOU are probably going to view an otherwise mundane person as a potential threat if openly armed. Admit it, you are going to go from condition yellow, to orange right there and then.
You aren’t going to get anywhere by asserting your right in your face style. You need to change the culture.
Cultural shift is what is gaining us ground big time, not hanging around starbucks while strapped.
We are winning because of a cultural shift, not a legal/rights ideal. A better way to make the point is required. What it is I’m not sure, especially when the option of concealed carry is available. Thinking, not latte’s are required.
May 13th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
They used to say that in the gay rights movement, too. They got nowhere for years until a bunch of people decided to try the “in your face” style, and then the whole movement took off.
“Inoffensive” and “in your face” both have uses. Rather than completely rule out one we should try to determine which of the two is most effective in different situations, and use both as each is appropriate.
May 13th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Yeah all of you extremists, don’t you know that exercising your rights scares the white people. What kind of garbage is that? You have the right, but don’t exercise it, because someone might be offended and scared. No thanks, I prefer to not have you and people like you tell me how I may or may not exercise my rights.
May 13th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
They’re my rights, I’ll assert them any damn way I please.
May 13th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Steve: “Shall issue” used to be an example of scaring the white people.
We passed shall issue in Oregon over the obstruction of the local NRA rep, that twerp Nichols.
We aren’t going back in the closet. If that scares you, you are welcome to go hide under your bed while we do the heavy lifting.
May 13th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
“They’re my rights, I’ll assert them any damn way I please.”
Not in Texas you won’t, and Not in Massachusetts I won’t, and not in North Carolina we won’t.
All the more reason why what these people in free states are doing is all the more important.
How do you train a hunting dog to keep calm when your shooting at the ducks? You take him to the shooting range and pop off a few rounds, and make sure he knows its OK. After a while he gets the point and doesn’t mind the gunshots.
If you don’t do it, you’ll never get anything done.
May 13th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Jake, actually your attempt at analogy to rebut Steve fails. The more aggressive style of gay rights protestors have created the backlashes where even in California ballot measures go against their agenda.
May 13th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Ya know, I open carry every day. Ruger P-94 in .40 in a paddle, with 2 spare mags in a paddle on the other hip. It doesn’t seem to scare anyone.
I smile a lot, hold doors for people, address most folks as sir or ma’am. I dress (mostly) in cargo pants and polo or button down shirts (what I wear for work) when I’m out and about in the evenings, and usually shorts and t-shirts on weekends.
I often get asked if I’m a detective, FBI, or recently (due to the floods) homeland security. I always say no, just a citizen who doesn’t want to be a victim. Open carrying encourages the goblins to go find a softer target elsewhere, and I have seen this happen. This usually starts a conversation on self defense, firearms, carriage of firearms, shooting sports, and I get to show people that educated, erudite individuals also carry firearms and defend their homes, families, and is some manner their communities.
@Weerd: OC is generally legal in NC, but is restricted in certain localities. I do it there about twice a year as I travel from Nashville to southern Virginia. Never had an issue.
Respectfully,
Pol
May 13th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Pol Mordreth,
I like your approach…
“Wherever I go, everyone is a little bit safer because I am there. Whenever I return home, everyone is happy I am there. Wherever I am, anyone in need has a friend.” –Robert L. Humphrey, The Warrior Creed
May 13th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
And how do you change a culture?
You normalize lawful behavior.
And how do you normalize lawful behavior?
I will give you a hint: not by hiding it.
And you know what? Not hiding it works.
May 13th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
Actually, no it doesn’t. If you look at the history of the gay rights movement, it was absolutely stagnant for decades – little inoffensively dressed groups, with little inoffensive signs marching in little inoffensive picket lines, and being absolutely ignored by everyone. Then the “in your face” crowd essentially took over after the Stonewall riots. “We’re here, we’re queer”, pride parades, and yes, even the public wearing of @$$less chaps. And you know what? Things started moving.
The “backlash” you’re thinking of seems to be more of a recent development in response to the just as recent rapid advancements of gay rights. It is possible for a minority to approach equality faster than the majority is willing to accept – which is something we should keep in mind with regards to Second Amendment Rights. Also, the “in your face” style can be overused, which is something that probably is contributing to the backlash.
The main point I was trying to make, and which always seems to get ignored, is that both styles have their uses, and we shouldn’t simply rule out a useful tactic just because we’re afraid of “scaring the straights.”
May 13th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
“…when employees and shoppers in retail stores see a person carrying a lethal weapon, they are likely to be frightened and possibly even panicky.”
Usually that’s completely false of course, but to the extent that it would ever be true, it is the result of the panick regularly promoted by the anti-rights media.
“If that scares you, you are welcome to go hide under your bed while we do the heavy lifting.”
Exactly so. If you don’t want to OC, then don’t.
For myself, I carry concealed most of the time, but I’m not bashful about OC either. I have been rather amused at people’s reactions when they see me carrying openly for the first time, having known me for years, when I tell them I carry all the time;
“Really? I never noticed!”
“That’s right. You’ve never seen me when I wasn’t carrying.”
“No! Really?” and so on.
May 13th, 2010 at 11:52 pm
Since concealed carry is banned in WI. And now OC is a crime…
That means that WI has totally denied it’s citizens the right to bear arms under the second amendment.
May 14th, 2010 at 2:08 am
But Steve, concealed is *not* an option in WI.
May 14th, 2010 at 4:10 am
Unfortunately, there appears to be some backlash to open carry in the CA legislature. A bill to ban unloaded open carry is moving forward…
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/12/ban-open-carry-guns-progresses/
May 15th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
@ Steve:
Hmmnnn… so a place (california) that doesn’t respect the right to keep an bear arms anyway is going to pass another law to keep the peasants in their place. I’d hazard to guess that if these bigots had thought of that method to carry in the first place it would have required a permit like all the other forms of carry. Heck, they’ll ban wearing empty holsters next.
Not sure how this makes your point valid. this isn’t a state where concealed carry is generally accepted restricting all carry because OC scares them. This is a state with existing distaste of any carry further restricting things. So there isn’t really any loss here even if it does pass. UOC was a political statement, not a viable means of self defense.
Now, were there plans in shall issue states to restrict all carry based on OC activists, I’d have to agree with you. But, that isn’t happening. States with liberal carry laws (OC, shall issue, few places off limits) are further relaxing those laws continuously. AZ went to constitutional carry, TN is getting carry in restaurants and parks, iowa went shall issue (i believe) so OC is at worst neutral.
Regards,
Pol
May 15th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
California is in the same basket-case mode as IL, MA, and NY … they need to be reconquered, and forced back into the US at gunpoint.
It might take a decade or so of reconstruction to force all of the bigots out of their governments, and into prison or exile.