Pre-Crime
Radley Balko has more on the guy who was arrested and had his guns taken without actually committing a crime:
Now perhaps a recent layoff, the legal purchase of three guns, and concerns from former co-workers are indeed red flags that someone’s planning a rampage. And maybe this arrest really did save lives. But there’s a phrase we use to describe the sort of society where the police can come into your home, arrest you, commit you to a mental facility, and confiscate your legally-obtained property on no more than a hunch that you might commit some crime in the near future.
And in an update, the guy is out (was only there a few hours) and wants his guns back. But the police are stalling:
The guns, along with another handgun and a shotgun the man also owned, were seized for “safekeeping” Monday, police said. The man was taken to Rogue Valley Medical Center for a mental-health evaluation, police said. He was released several hours later.
Now, Pyles wants his property returned.
Medford police Lt. Bob Hansen said police try to return found, stolen or seized property to its rightful owner as soon as possible and have a procedure for doing so. If the property was seized as evidence, courts have the final say on when it can be returned.
Hansen declined to discuss Pyles’ request, but described the department’s process, which can take several weeks. Processing weapons takes longer than other items, he said.
When a person requests the release of property held by police, first the officer handling the case confirms that the item is no longer needed for the investigation, he said. Property control specialists confirm the owner’s identity, then, for weapons, send information to Oregon State Police to determine if the person can legally have the weapon. OSP checks criminal records and looks for medical holds that might block gun ownership, Hansen said. Local police check additional municipal court records.
I also hope this guy has lawyered up.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:27 am
If he wasn’t planning on a rampage before the arrest, I bet it’s crossed his mind since.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:27 am
GEE?? I wonder the process is to return proberty when it has been STOLEN BUY THE POLICE WHEN CRIMES WERE COMMITED IN VIOLATION OF YORU CIVIL RIGHTS???! I wonder what that process is gonna be??! I know this, if it were me, my Lawyer would be HOT ONTHIER ASSES and shortly after having my guns returned, they wuld be getting papers handed to them from the line officers that entered my home in violation of the fourth amendment right up to the Chief of the dept and everyone else in between that had anything to do with this raid. I would own them all in the end and as part of the settlement EVERYONE OF THEM WOULD BE REQUIRED TO SURRENDER THIER COMMISIONS FOR A MINIMUM OF 7 years and WOULD NOT BE REENSTATED UNTIL THEY HAD A MINIMUM OF AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE IN CRIMINAL JUSTICE that would guerantee they knew WHAT THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES said about WARRENTS AND SEARCHES!! These guys have it commin and it CRITICAL that they be made an example of if we are to keep the foundations of our way of govt. SUE SUE SUE!!
March 12th, 2010 at 11:07 am
In other words, they are looking for any reason not to return them.
March 12th, 2010 at 11:35 am
LOOK, I”M IN ALL CAPS! I’M IMPORTANT, LISTEN TO ME!
No, really, this guys should show them “the process” for teaching the police a lesson in respecting citizens’ rights. Lawyer up and sue. Refuse to settle and drag them through discovery. Make them spend $1M before they even get to summary judgment. That’s a lesson departments don’t usually forget.
March 12th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
I dealt with this crap in Chicago. One guy, whom I tried to help and could not, shot a robber and the police took the gun in. He was never charged with anything. We never got the gun back. Last word, after unravelling miles of red tape, it had been destroyed. Forget black helicopters and ninjas in Nazi helmets. Bureaucracy is the foundation and mainstay of a police state.
March 12th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
As for “sue, sue, sue”, the best you’ll get is the fair market value of the guns. And it’s your burden to prove it. Your lawyer will work ten times as hard as the defense and he will want to be paid.
As for “discovery” … heh! Pay your lawyer $300.00/hr to make his request and I will pay Kinko’s $0.03 a page to send him 5,000 pages that he will charge you $300.00/hr to read.
You may have guessed that I am not a plaintiff’s attorney. 😉
March 12th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Violation of civil rights is worth more than the stolen property NK Poet.
March 12th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Paging Mr. Gura! Paging Mr. Mihel….
March 12th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Forget associates degree go for full professor of law. What really happened is that one of cops budget is low so they are getting new weapons anywhere they can. Even if they have to steal them. The corruption these cops have would make my local pd proud.
March 12th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
I love the smell of a good lawsuit in the morning. F these silly cops up.
March 12th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
So, someone should start a fund to donate money to him to buy another handgun?
March 13th, 2010 at 7:22 am
Don’t forget. a judge needs to sign off on a search warrent or did they not use one? I didn’t see it mentioned in the story. that would be a money maker.
March 13th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Slightly OT but seems somewhat relevant…
http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
Botched Paramilitary Police Raids:
An Epidemic of “Isolated Incidents”
“If a widespread pattern of [knock-and-announce] violations were shown . . . there would be reason for grave concern.”
—Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, in Hudson v. Michigan, June 15, 2006.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
So even though they’ve obviously given the guy an anal exam for ANYTHING they might be able to use against him, and found nothing(and you know damned well they ran the numbers on every firearm he owned), they’re still playing this game of “Oh, we have to check this all out.” They just leave out “Again.”
This fits them even more securely into my category of ‘Lawmen, sorry excuse for’
March 15th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Kofka! Kofka! sorry, something stuck in my craw.