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Zombie lawyers

Can someone successfully sue you because you use Hornady’s Zombie Max ammo in your carry gun?

29 Responses to “Zombie lawyers”

  1. mikee Says:

    Winchester .357 Black Talon was another brand name demonized by anti-gunners, on the grounds that it was more effective than other ammo at stopping a violent act when applied as directed.

    So depending on the ones judging you:
    If you are serious about ammo effectiveness, it is bad.
    And if you joke about ammo effectiveness, it is bad.
    And if you are ineffective, it is bad.
    And if you fire a warning shot it is bad.
    And if you shoot center mass it is bad.
    And if you shoot to wound it is bad.
    And if you win a violent confrontation it is bad.
    And if you lose a violent confrontation it is bad.
    And if you ….

  2. xpo172 Says:

    This came up in the recent MAG-40 class with Massad Ayoob. His response is: BAD
    Not only could it be used against you in a civil case, but a prosecutor could use it in a criminal case. You need to be able to clearly articulate WHY your using your preferred defensive ammo. I use Black Talon or Win Ranger T because that’s what local PD uses, it’s more likely to stop the threat sooner, reduces the danger to bystanders due to over penetration, etc. And I can show that I knew that prior to using it for a defensive shooting.

  3. HL Says:

    If you are using some of the lead free bullets, you can even add that it is enviro-friendly…surely a big hit with Blue State juries.

  4. Rivrdog Says:

    Maybe this idea will make the asinine fascination with all things “zombie” go away.

    I’ve preferred other words for enemy anyway. “Crud” comes to mind, but I doubt if it’ll ever make the fine print on an ammo carton.

    I’m betting that Hornady changes their ammo boxes soon, “re-badging” that particular load. If you have this stuff, save the boxes, they might be worth trading away at a gun show someday.

  5. Standard Mischief Says:

    I’ve been told to assume anything I use in self-defense might be held up to a jury, which has been “voir-dired” down to the lowest common denominator of meatbots. Seems reasonable.

    It’s probably it’s a bad idea to investigate things that go bump in the night with a Bat’leth in hand.

  6. Standard Mischief Says:

    >I’m betting that Hornady changes their ammo boxes soon, “re-badging” that particular load.

    As discussed here and elsewhere, these are likely sold as normal rounds in a plain box by Hornady already, except with a red tip rather than green.

  7. KCSteve Says:

    ZombieMax is Hornadays Critical Defense with four changes:
    1) Plain brass instead of nickel brass.
    2) Green plastic plug instead of red
    3) Possibly controversial box instead of serious box
    and
    4) it’s at least 1$ / box cheaper.

    I tell people to buy ZombieMax and, if it comes up, explain that they bought the bullets, not the box.

  8. HL Says:

    It’s probably it’s a bad idea to investigate things that go bump in the night with a Bat’leth in hand.

    Outstanding reference to The First Lady’s preferred weapon.

  9. Moriarty Says:

    Standard Mischief is correct. Z-Max is “novelty ammo” peddled to capitalize on the current zombie fad. The only differences between it and TAP/Critical Defense are the color of the plastic and the packaging.

    I’ve spoken to one criminal defense attorney about this. His opinion was that this probably wouldn’t matter much in a criminal proceeding but might make a difference in a civil suit.

    Taking part in a standing joke with your means of delivering deadly force is foolish. The less you need to explain under oath, the better.

  10. SteveP Says:

    Man, I’ll be glad when the zombie stupidity goes away. That and the tactical crap.

  11. Standard Mischief Says:

    >I tell people to buy ZombieMax and, if it comes up, explain that they bought the bullets, not the box.

    I didn’t know it was cheaper.

    Buy the green shit for practice, pay the extra buck for carry ammo.

  12. JAG2955 Says:

    Only if you shoot them in the head…

  13. adam Says:

    Only if you use a follow-up shot after they’re down…

  14. Rob Crawford Says:

    I use Black Talon or Win Ranger T because that’s what local PD uses…

    Congratulations! The opposition lawyer gets to paint you as a wanna-be cop!

  15. HL Says:

    Congratulations! The opposition lawyer gets to paint you as a wanna-be cop!

    Excellent point! But I think they would prefer the term “vigilante”.

  16. NAME REDACTED Says:

    “I use Black Talon or Win Ranger T because that’s what local PD uses…”

    The term you want to use is “industry standard.”

  17. TIM Says:

    Give Me A Break Only To Be Used On Zombies.

  18. Bryan S. Says:

    Massad Ayoob and this guy need to STFU and stop giving anti-gunners ammo to try good people with.

    the stuff is just Vmax with a green plastic insert instead of a red one.

  19. Gerry Says:

    I used HZA because you never know when your going to run in to a face eating freakazoid from Miami.

    I guess Golden Sabres don’t give one shot stops on face eating freakazoids.

    Just joking, don’t go all internutty on me.

    Gerry

  20. SPQR Says:

    Bryan S., prosecutors and plaintiff’s lawyers don’t wait around for Mas to think up things for them.

  21. Jeffersonian Says:

    Cardio.

  22. somejerk Says:

    It’s not a joke, any lawyer worth his salt will have a jury understanding that “zombie” equals “minority” by the end of voire dire.

  23. Tam Says:

    No, because I don’t put gay-ass shark-jumping ammo in my carry guns. 😉

  24. Phil Says:

    If they want to put something that asinine on their product, I’ll oblige them by not buying it unless a zombie apocalypse breaks out. Hollow threat, I groaned when I saw the loser labels.

  25. Grayson Says:

    Remember these words, people, because you WILL see them again:

    After you are involved in a shooting to defend your life, or the lives of others, there is one thing far more important than your choice of firearm or ammunition.

    It is your choice of the lawyer who represents you in court.

    Full Stop. Here ends the lesson.

  26. Standard Mischief Says:

    Bryan S. Says:
    >Massad Ayoob and this guy need to STFU and stop giving anti-gunners ammo to try good people with..

    Please do your damnedest to actually sit on a jury.

    Bonus points if you know what a “fully informed juror” is or what a “hung jury” means.

  27. nk Says:

    Well, how much money do you have? In Illinois, shooting, unlawfully, can be twenty-five years in prison, on top of the predicate crime.

    They’re not gonna sue you. You’re not worth the trouble. You will have moved or been evicted, shot or sent to prison, died from alcohol or meth. And you have nothing to pay a judgment with

    They will sue the manufacturer.

  28. Bryan S. Says:

    Standard:

    I have, and I was not accepted, because I have a poor view of rapists. Both times that the letter has come, no stay has been required.

    Im also familiar with jury nullification and a hung jury, and can only assume that a “fully informed juror” means what it says.

  29. Rob Crawford Says:

    It’s not a joke, any lawyer worth his salt will have a jury understanding that “zombie” equals “minority” by the end of voire dire.

    Well of COURSE zombies are a minority. If they weren’t, well, we’d all be dead.