Tueller Drill
Robb, Joe and Caleb have video of one of the more interesting IDPA courses I’ve seen. It mimics the Tueller Drill. This is one of those peculiar instances in which I think practical shooting is impractical. Presumably, you must stay in your shooting box and pop off rounds at the incoming bad guy. But it would make more sense in the real world to start backing up and drawing your weapon.
I’m not being hard on practical shooters. I just think knowing the limitations of it are key. People forget that it is a game.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:39 am
True.
It’s a lot more practical than shooting stationary targets at an indoor range where you’re not even allowed to draw from the leather and can shoot from a standing position only, which is all most shooters ever do.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:41 am
You probably want to back up at an angle to the left or right; he can run forward a lot faster than you can backpedal anyways, so you might as well at least make him change course, too.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:46 am
And, like I said at my place, if backup is not feasible and you don’t have time to draw from concealment, aim for the hips and lunge. Low man wins.
Gunnies need to be reminded that their gun is only a tool and one with very specific uses. It’s not a Swiss army knife that can handle every threat.
September 1st, 2009 at 10:12 am
I think it’s useful in the sense that it shows what “under two seconds” really means, and the on-rushing target is much more nerve-wracking than a target 7 yards away what just sits there.
September 1st, 2009 at 10:53 am
IDPA is real life.
September 1st, 2009 at 11:35 am
“Presumably, you must stay in your shooting box and pop off rounds at the incoming bad guy.”
I watched a related YouTube video that happened to be another shooter doing the full course. On that stage he backed up as he drew and shot. Not sure why the guy in this particular video didn’t, but it doesn’t appear to have been against the course rules.
September 1st, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Backing up does nothing unless they were so close they could run you down. Backing up does not reduce your target area, does not make it more difficult for them to hit you, nor does it do anything to steady your aim.
You have a choice, move lateraly behind some cover, or stand and deliver. The drill will show you if you have the abilty to stand and deliver. Many do not!
September 1st, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Next COF I design it will have a “dive to your left/right and fire two guns while flying the air” requirement.
Because, well, fuck yeah.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:13 pm
It is times like these that FOF courses are actually really useful…
As much as some people have issues with Gabe Suarez, his airsoft-based FOF course addresses a lot of this rather well.
As and IDPA stage, this is pretty cool, tho…
September 1st, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Paul,
1) There didn’t appear to be any cover there bhind which to move.
2) Moving laterally off the line of attack is still a good idea.
3) You may think you have the ability to “stand and deliver”. Maybe you do, when you and the mover are both starting from the same auditory signal and you’re whisking your race gun out of speed kydex.
OTOH, if your “go” signal is the target suddenly charging at you, and your gun is in carry leather (or, worse, in a pocket,) and you think you could still “stand and deliver” at 21′, I’d like some of what you’re smoking.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:32 pm
I’m not tacticool by any stretch of the imagination, but reflexively backing up seems like a good way to trip and fall down. Like Tam said you’re not really gaining much distance by walking backwards relative to the guy running towards you.
September 1st, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Many good points, but the key still is to avoid the situation. Situational awareness is still the most effective tool you will even have and makes all your other tools much more effective.
The drill is good for training though. Movement may not get you much, but anything is an advantage. And I’d say the risk of tripping is worth taking if you can put an obstacle between you and the attacker. I’ve never seen any place so open that a stranger could get that close to attack where I couldn’t find something to start leveling the battlefield. I’m with Tam on the stand and deliver bit.
I’ll abuse a Will Rogers quote a little: “Movement is the ability of saying “Nice doggie” until you can find a rock.”
September 1st, 2009 at 6:50 pm
I don’t think tackling the guy with knife is going to get you a good outcome, in general wrestling with people using knives is a loosing proposition.
The target system they are using will not allow you to do what I am suggesting, but essentially maintaing distance by circling the target in a “J” shaped movement plays out really well against human assailants when we do this with Simunitions.
September 1st, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Thanks John. I knew that was the proper response but I couldn’t find the words to describe it.
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:40 am
“stand and deliver”? More like stand and die. To survive an attack without moving off the line of attack, you’re betting an awful lot on hitting the aorta or spine on a charging attacker in less than 2 seconds from their first movement. Otherwise, even if you place good shots, you’re going to have a guy with a knife on top of you for 10, 20 or even 60 seconds while he bleeds out.
You should train your “flinch” (it’s going to happen so use it) to automatically be to move off the line of attack either in an “L” at 90 degrees or a “J” at 45 degrees. It is more difficult for an attacker to adapt to someone moving in a curve. Timing is important as the attacker must be committed to their charge so it is hard for them to adapt. Also use obstacles to force them to adapt their attack. The object is to break their momentum and give you time to draw or otherwise react. Standing in place means just as you come to bear, you’re in a grapple for a knife (with a gun on the loose) and that is if you are aware and have a lot of draw practice with your holster.
September 4th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Best bet is to move to your LEFT if possible.
You ain’t gonna create significant distance by backpedaling, and it’s a REAL GOOD way to fall on your butt. But you DO want to screw up his attack approach.
So generate max delta-V by going perpendicular to your attacker’s axis of approach.
Why move to your left?
Most people are right handed. Moving to the left puts you at a more awkward angle for your attacker to refocus his stab attack if he’s right handed (and if he’s left handed, he’s grown up in a world of right handers. . . this is why EVERYONE hates a lefty fencer, even other lefties). It also is a LESS awkward angle for you to readjust your fire to, even more so if you use a bladed stance.
Of course, moving to your right is still better than either standing still or backing up.
Now, if he’s within 7 meters (liek within 5) when I notice the attack, I would probably CLOSE distance, trying to deflect his stab with my offhand whilst going for a close up shot. Because I’m not going to clear my holster before contact, anyway.