The end of KnoxViews?
Today a sad change has been made on KnoxViews.
A decision has been made by Randy Neal and the KnoxViews team to change the site rules so only “Trusted Users” can post to the KnoxViews site. The short hand for “Trusted Users” means liberal democrats.
This occurred after complaints from fellow KnoxViews bloggers that their posts had been removed from the front page. Mr. Neal patiently explained it was his blog and he and his team decide what is worthy of being on the front page. Mr. Neal made it clear he is the decider. On several separate occasions Mr. Neal changed the User Agreement to answer the questions from dissatisfied KnoxViews bloggers.
Each time the User Agreement was changed it became more doctrinaire, restrictive, and left leaning. The term “Progressive” was changed to mean “liberal democrat” because people questioned what progressive meant. Today it has been changed again to read, “KnoxViews is a progressive (i.e. “liberal”, although responsible opposing conservative viewpoints are welcome) community space for citizens of Knoxville and the surrounding community to meet, organize, and discuss news, politics, events, and issues affecting the community.”
The question now becomes who are the “responsible opposing conservative viewpoints”? Are there any?
The question of what the word “open” meant was also challenged. Tempers flared yesterday when Mr. Neal described fellow KnoxViews blogger, the former GOP Chairman of Knox County Chad Tindell, as one of the “token Republicans” of KnoxViews. Slowly but surely an open neutral blog drifted left until today it took a hard “left turn“.
Is KnoxViews representative of Knoxville? Or is it only representative of a small portion of Knoxville?
KnoxViews owner Randy Neal explained, “It was an interesting experiment while it lasted. Sadly it has come to an end, mainly because of the time involved in dealing with the complaints and policing the site.”
Did KnoxViews lose its openness today? Only the readers can make that decision. Without a level playing ground will KnoxViews become an echo chamber of only far left thinking? If so, will it have any relevance in East Tennessee?
Update: SayUncle Adds:
I do appreciate everyone’s lesson on capitalism and Mr. Neal’s property rights. No one is disputing that.
My issue is that when he first started it, he asked me to participate. So, I did. Now, my kind ain’t wanted there no more.
Update: Randy Neal Counter Point
April 10th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
[…] The Numeral, writing at Say Uncle, notes that some changes have taken place at KnoxViews: Today a sad change has been made on KnoxViews. […]
April 10th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
I am neither a liberal nor a Democrat.
April 10th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
You’re writing as though KnoxViews is somehow your blog. It isn’t. It belongs to R. Neal. If he doesn’t want your paranoid conspiracy crap on the front page, that’s his decision. And it’s a welcome one.
April 10th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Speaking of the “Knoxviews team,” only one person talks like that: Hornback. Is # 9, Brian Hornback?
April 10th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
metulj:
“I am neither a liberal nor a Democrat.”
So you’re a conservative Republican? I knew it!
Of course not. And you make fun of libertarians, so that’s out.
So spill the beans. Who did you vote for in the last few elections, o indeterminate, complicated one?
I’ll go first: Bush, Nader, Clinton, Clinton, (bearded dude in the sky help me) Dukakis.
April 10th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Again with the false alternatives, Les. As for my votes, that’s between me, the ballot box and the FBI.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:15 am
There seems to be this idea that blogs are somehow publicly owned. That is not the case. A blogowner can do whatever they want with their blog. Readers can then choose to visit or not.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:21 am
Randy didn’t change the rules to make the blog more “left.” It was always intended to be a primarily progressive blog, athough as far as I can tell no one’s ever been kept from saying what they want to say because of their political bent.
He changed to rules because some folks were abusing everyone’s opportunity to enjoy the blog by a) posting stuff on the front page that didn’t merit that much attention, or b) posting borderline libelous and mean-spirited stuff in the comments.
I can imagine Randy refusing to grant “trusted user” status to someone because of their politics. I can see him refusing to grant it to anyone, liberal or conservative, who can’t behave themselves.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Dang, that’s supposed to say I can’t imagine Randy refusing to grant “trusted user” status etc…
I really need to proof myself better before I hit “submit.”
April 11th, 2007 at 7:07 am
So far as I can tell, I have “trusted user” status, and I’m probably one of the more right-wing posters there. So time will tell.
April 11th, 2007 at 7:21 am
One thing to add. It’s Randy’s blog. I never forget that I’m a guest there, and the day he wants to ban me from it it’s his right. It’s the kind of thing us “conservatives” are supposed to stand for.
April 11th, 2007 at 8:23 am
It’s totally Randy’s blog. I told him that the other day.
But now that my posting privileges are gone, I have no interest in participating in any other capacity.
April 11th, 2007 at 8:32 am
He voted for a commie. McReynolds, IIRC. He’s said so.
I do appreciate everyone’s lesson on capitalism and Mr. Neal’s property rights. No one is disputing that.
My issue is that when he first started it, he asked me to participate. So, I did. Now, my kind ain’t wanted there no more.
April 11th, 2007 at 8:55 am
>My issue is that when he first started it, he asked me to participate. So, I
>did. Now, my kind ain’t wanted there no more.
It’s O’Sullivan’s Law: any organization that is not explicitly right wing eventually becomes implictly left wing.
April 11th, 2007 at 9:03 am
I voted for David McReynolds because he is gay!
April 11th, 2007 at 9:07 am
So metulj didn’t vote for Democrats because they’re too right wing!
April 11th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Who the f*ck care who metoolj voted for? They didn’t win. They never do.
April 11th, 2007 at 10:47 am
Some bloggers from KnoxViews have come over here to share their thoughts. That is something I cannot do on KnoxViews. I have been banned because I dared to question Randy Neal.
My problem with Mr. Neal is simple. There is a User Agreement at KnoxViews and for reasons only Mr. Neal knows it was not applied to some special people. I dared to point this out and I am gone.
I got tired of people like Steve (aka Whitescreek), gttim, Andy Axel and Eleanor constantly flaunting the fact that they could ignore the User Agreement when others were not only held to the agreement but were held to a much higher standard. Somewhere between the elitism and hypocrisy I got tired of the game.
Far left democrats have a form of kryptonite that they cannot tolerate. It is hypocrisy. They believe hypocrisy is only for wingnuts. When you call them out as hypocrites they go into a frenzy. One of the leaders of the far left liberal pack at KnoxViews has a signature line that reads, “True happiness in knowing you are a hypocrite”. Of course this commenter is one of the great hypocrites at KnoxViews.
My beef was simple. I was encouraged to post local commentary and harassed when I posted national commentary. I pointed out that the User Agreement was changed at least three times and my feelings about those changes. KnoxViews did not start out as Randy Neal’s “blog”. It started out as a forum of blogs moderated by Randy Neal. As time went on myself and a few others objected to the constant “rule changes”, doctrine, and censorship.
Two things tore it for me. First when Say Uncles Poll on Superheroes was plucked off the front page and the reason given by Randy Neal was that he had just finished an important post and he wanted EVERYONE to see it. Of course he could have but that post at the top but that wasn’t good enough. This had happened to me several times and it was a departure from the original User Agreement.
The second thing that tore it was when commenter gttim crossed way over the line and used a BDSM (bondage sadomasochism) term to taunt commenter CBT. Then Mr. Neal told gttim to take it easy on CBT the “token Republican”. The double standard got to the point where KnoxViews lost its relevance. Now KnoxViews is KOS-lite. Will it go full blown Daily KOS? Time will tell. But for the best in Bush-Hitler, you know where to go.
April 11th, 2007 at 10:49 am
So, changing the User Agreement is the same as sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “La la la I can’t hear you.” ?
April 11th, 2007 at 10:55 am
“La la la I can’t hear you.”
Funny you should say that. KnoxViews commenter Rachel used to write that line “La la la I can’t hear you” and then finish with a cryptic insult.
The original format of KnoxViews was a brilliant creation. But the free speech idea was more than some could tolerate. Predictable but sad.
April 11th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Well, my offense was for daring to post something at roughly the same time as randy. I haven’t been banned but I’ll no longer participate. I’ll read posts from my reader to keep up with what the local lefty community is talking about.
It’s best to ignore gttim. I don’t read anything he writes ever since he made fun of me over my false alarm heart attack. He has some severe emotional problems. But his comments are OK at knoxviews!
April 11th, 2007 at 11:00 am
It’s also funny perusing the comments there that link to this post. Apparently, I’m just mad because randy has a bigger blog dick than I do, or something. I have no clue what their traffic/readership is.
April 11th, 2007 at 11:09 am
“I have no clue what their traffic/readership is.”
But you know what your traffic is, don’t you?
#9: you can still comment. You can’t blog. It isn’t your site. Too bad. So sorry.
April 11th, 2007 at 11:14 am
#9: you can still comment. You can’t blog. It isn’t your site. Too bad. So sorry.
metulj, I CANNOT comment as I cannot login. Ask your Master. You won the only way you could win. By taking your ball and going home.
Congratulations.
April 11th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Mostly. But comparing known to an unknown does what exactly? Aren’t you like an academic or something? And it is irrelevant to the point, which is that I’m not upset about the size of the knoxviews blog dick.
[insert les jones’ knoxviews signature here]
April 11th, 2007 at 11:28 am
“#9: you can still comment. You can’t blog. It isn’t your site. Too bad. So sorry.
metulj, I CANNOT comment as I cannot login. Ask your Master. You won the only way you could win. By taking your ball and going home.
Congratulations.”
Yea! Really? I didn’t know. I guess I am outside of the cabal! Whee. Come on over to the Blab and play anytime you want! By the way, I personally protected your anonymity on Knoxviews 3 times during my tenure as a moderator. No need to thank me. And, yes, they were completely accurate as to who you are.
“Mostly. But comparing known to an unknown does what exactly? Aren’t you like an academic or something? And it is irrelevant to the point, which is that I’m not upset about the size of the knoxviews blog dick.
[insert les jones’ knoxviews signature here]”
My point is that you made a point about traffic. Who cares? I thought this was to just entertain you? As for Les, no more appropriately named person exists. As for being an academic, blogging isn’t. I just do it to entertain myself. Whee!
April 11th, 2007 at 11:34 am
I did? I thought I made it pretty clear that I thought it was irrelevant. Again, insert les jones’ knoxviews signature.
April 11th, 2007 at 11:37 am
I got tired of people like Steve (aka Whitescreek), gttim, Andy Axel and Eleanor constantly flaunting the fact that they could ignore the User Agreement when others were not only held to the agreement but were held to a much higher standard. Somewhere between the elitism and hypocrisy I got tired of the game.
Maybe it’s easier when people can address you as a human being rather than as an Odd Integer. Just a theory.
Randy’s got my phone number. We have had dinner. His company is delightful and his wife is a lovely person as well.
For what it’s worth, I’ve had a number of posts plonked by Randy but I didn’t make a federal case of it. But thanks for amping the drama and turning this into an internecine blogwar. I don’t expect any different from you, but you’ve had an axe to grind with Randy and with bloggers like me from Day One of the reconstituted SKB. In all fairness, that should be posted as a big disclaimer to your rant.
A decision has been made by Randy Neal and the KnoxViews team to change the site rules so only “Trusted Users” can post to the KnoxViews site.
I’m well aware that the truth has never stopped you from your gasbaggery, so I don’t expect you to start now. But. In the interest of full disclosure, I am a superuser at that site, however, I was never consulted about this or any other change made at KV. So far as I know, this decision and its execution was Randy Neal’s and Randy Neal’s alone. The KV “team” is a figment of your imagination, Oddman.
Did KnoxViews lose its openness today? Only the readers can make that decision. Without a level playing ground will KnoxViews become an echo chamber of only far left thinking?
Hey, Uncle, Les, CBT — how many of your posts or comments, prior to the Superhero Incident, ever got killfiled?
FWIW, no posts or comments, if removed, ever get permanently deleted. I can go back and revive them from the unpublished queue. I see 4 pages of comments in that, and never ever ever ever one by SayUncle, Les Jones, or by CBT. Ever. Not one. Not once. I see some by Kyle Bubp and a bunch of anonymous comments and stuff from that Egalia Stanberry troll and some by Serr8d. A few by the digit. But overall, it’s been a free flow for “your kind.”
_______
No libertarian ideals were harmed in the writing of this post.
April 11th, 2007 at 11:49 am
I think I had 3 posts yanked. One of which was put back after I complained. One of which was yanked for it’s reference to fellatio (and I did not make a stink about it). And the poll, which irked me due to the fact it was not political, was meant to be a joke, and was mostly harmless. What irked me more was the response to it.
April 11th, 2007 at 11:59 am
Funny you should say that. KnoxViews commenter Rachel used to write that line “La la la I can’t hear you” and then finish with a cryptic insult.
I wrote that once, in response to you saying something for the 27th time after folks had pointed out to you that you were factually incorrect.
Seems you are stretching the truth over here as much as you did on KnoxViews. Those kind of bad manners are what got you banned.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
FWIW, no posts or comments, if removed, ever get permanently deleted. I can go back and revive them from the unpublished queue. I see 4 pages of comments in that, and never ever ever ever one by SayUncle, Les Jones, or by CBT. Ever. Not one. Not once. I see some by Kyle Bubp and a bunch of anonymous comments and stuff from that Egalia Stanberry troll and some by Serr8d. A few by the digit. But overall, it’s been a free flow for “your kind.”
I know this is way over your head Andy, but the “your kind” meme is a big part of the problem. That’s why KnoxViews is no longer relevant.
I tolerated elitist hypocrisy for a long time so I could blog on local issues on KnoxViews. If I had never blogged on Global Warming, Al Gore, or John Edwards I would still be at KnoxViews and the User Agreement would not have been changed. But don’t try and lay this at my doorstep. This is Mr. Neal’s decision.
Mr. Neal was repeatedly upset that more comments were posted on my KnoxViews blog than his. He even commented on this once or twice. He saw his posts as “serious” work and didn’t like the competition. Not my fault. Maybe you can explain it Andy, you responded to my posts more than most. What were you doing, keeping the World safe from #9? Afraid I might “infect” some of the herd with ideas foreign to your doctrine?
The original KnoxViews was a breakthrough forum. Now it is just another Daily KOS-lite imitator. In the end the only way “your kind” could win was to build a fence. The sad part is while you keep “our kind” out, you keep “your kind” in. Welcome to the sound of one hand clapping. The echos of suppression.
The KnoxViews team did not refer to you. Mrs. Neal is the other part of the team.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
>>In the end the only way “your kind” could win was to build a fence.
Reminds me, Mike, how’s that Farragut secession thing working out?
April 11th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Les Jones sums up my feelings about the fence around KnoxViews, “It’s Randy’s blog and his choice. He’s sent a clear message that he doesn’t want me posting here. I’m not going to adjust my politics or genuflect just so in order to become a “trusted user.””
If you have to put on some Chap-Stick and kiss someones ass to be a “Trusted User” then it is time to move on. Randy Neal shot KnoxViews in the knee. For the second time he has destroyed something great. The only difference is he didn’t put up a post “Thanks for the fish” like last time.
The whole “Trusted User” deal is the biggest bullshit in local blog history. It is far left elitism carried out to its illogical conclusion.
This is the problem with far left liberals. They can’t play by the rules so they have to change the rules. Why else would Mr. Neal change the User Agreement three times? Welcome to the mindset of Clinton, Gore, and Edwards. The common theme is “We’re better than you”. Are those the people you want in charge to make the rules?
April 11th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
More on the “Trusted User” purge on KnoxViews.
April 11th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
[…] because it’s your sandbox, doesn’t mean you should be a brat to all the other kids in the neighborhood, because they don’t want to play the same way you do. It’s a good lesson, I […]
April 11th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Well, apparently the crime of inviting East Tennessee bloggers of all political stripes to come together and enjoy each other’s company is also enough to prevent coronation as a Trusted User since I too have had my content creation privileges revoked.
That’s too bad.
April 11th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
I know this is way over your head Andy, but the “your kind” meme is a big part of the problem. That’s why KnoxViews is no longer relevant.
I know this is way over your head Oddman, but the idea of there being a “your kind” was brought up by SayUncle. “My kind aren’t welcome there,” or whatever. Take up your beef with him.
I tolerated elitist hypocrisy for a long time so I could blog on local issues on KnoxViews. If I had never blogged on Global Warming, Al Gore, or John Edwards I would still be at KnoxViews and the User Agreement would not have been changed. But don’t try and lay this at my doorstep.
You can play that whiny victim fiddle all you want, but your ideology is the least of my concern with you.
Maybe you can explain it Andy, you responded to my posts more than most. What were you doing, keeping the World safe from #9? Afraid I might “infect” some of the herd with ideas foreign to your doctrine?
Har. De. Har.
Why did I respond to you? Good question. I shouldn’t have, probably. I could say, “You bug the sh*t out of me,” but that doesn’t say why. “You’re an inveterate liar and the worst kind of intellectual fraud,” I guess is as close as I can come. I know you can’t help it, bless your heart, but you have a real problem with mistaking your imagination for TRVTH.
Too bad you lost your conduit into KV, though. You’re just gonna have to work harder to drive traffic to your infringing works on YouTube.
This is the problem with far left liberals. They can’t play by the rules so they have to change the rules.
Try telling my investment portfolio that. Oh, wait. We librulz aren’t supposed to have money or use electricity or own big houses or nuttin’. It’s “teh hypocrisy.”
The whole “Trusted User” deal is the biggest bullshit in local blog history.
If we concede that’s the TRVTH, there’ll be a bigger bullshit in local Knoxville blog history, and I am certain that you’ll be involved. To hear you tell it, there was an unprecedented big bullshit at k2k and an even bigger bullshit at metroblab and an even worse bigger bullshit at knoxblab.
April 11th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Although I did not need for you to prove my point Andy, you did so admirably.
Your vintage post above, which breaks most of the rules of the KnoxViews User Agreement; shows the elitism and hypocrisy of a once noble forum of blogs. In order to defend you, Steve, and gttim Randy Neal had to purge those who argued with you. In doing so he even took out Rich Hailey and many others who were completely innocent. Rather a Stalinist course of action wouldn’t you say?
Isn’t it ironic that both you and gttim who were instrumental in the last blowup at SKB are once again instrumental in this purge? You both must be very proud.
If you could stand up for yourself you wouldn’t need Mr. Neal to protect you.
It is only a matter of time before the “Thanks for the fish” farewell is posted. I’m thinking November 5th 2008.
April 11th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Rich: that is freakin’ ridiculous that you got booted. You played mighty nice over there. You were the one – the only one – setting up the blogger get togethers. And they booted you?
Total ideological purge.
April 11th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
[…] you are interested in getting a peek at some East Tennessee blog drama, go here and here. It’s good reading. Spread It Around: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where […]
April 11th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Rich Hailey writes about the next BlogFest Announcement. He also shares his feelings about the purge.
I guess Rich has a sense of humor with the Laser Quest part. Hatfields and the McCoys? The purged and the unpurged?
April 11th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
What took you guys so long to bail on KnoxViews?
The last time I looked, it truly was Kos Lite, which resulted in my exiting the board/site without looking back.
I wish Randy Neil well with it, but it’s certainly not reflective of the kind of input that I find helpful.
Also, the level of vitriol in the comments and chatrooms of left of center sites and blogs dwarfs that of the conservative blogs and sites that I read (e.g. “outing” and anonymous poster, as done so nicely above).
I frequently read, and sometimes post on, a website relating to a historical topic in which I have an interest, and the level of antipathy, contempt and sarcasm that the members display causes me to refrain from posting on any topic which is tangentially political in nature.
It is an international site, and at least 1/2 of the posters are non-US residents, which means that they live (i.e. exist) in socialist countries which have forfeited their respective national sovereignties to the EU and/or the UN.
Most of them live in countries with double digit unemployment, so they have plenty of time to post.
April 11th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Isn’t it ironic that both you and gttim who were instrumental in the last blowup at SKB are once again instrumental in this purge?
(a) I had nothing to do with the MP’s publisher stalking Randy Neal and blackmailing him. To my knowledge, neither did Tim.
(b) I had nothing to do with Randy’s decision to boot you. You have no one to blame but yourself.
If you could stand up for yourself you wouldn’t need Mr. Neal to protect you.
That’s especially rich coming from someone who doesn’t even have the courage to blog without the protection of pseudonymity.
April 11th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Is your real name Andy Axel? I’m just asking because if it is, that’s a pretty cool name.
April 11th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Hey digit, have you ever thought about making up your own version of KnoxViews so you can post your diatribes without fear of deletion?
April 11th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
What took you guys so long to bail on KnoxViews?
The last time I looked, it truly was Kos Lite, which resulted in my exiting the board/site without looking back.
It is a fair question Chris. I believe I am currently the number 2 or 3 poster at KnoxViews and in the top 5 five as far as comments. Some people have asked me offline via email why I invest the time.
KnoxViews has more local readership than any other local Knox County blog. Say Uncle is a national blog and many readers are not interested in Knox County issues. It is not uncommon for me to post the same post on each blog pertaining to a Knox County issue and have no responses at Say Uncle and over 100 responses at KnoxViews.
I was convicted for the sin of double posting. That is silly. It is two distinct audiences. My problem was that I believed the User Agreement. I thought it was sincere. It wasn’t.
I wanted to do two things in blogging. Blog local issues and national issues. Everything was fine until I cross posted a piece on Global Warming on KnoxViews. Even though Randy Neal immediately took it off the front page it still generated over 130 responses. That was the beginning of the end. I could have kissed and made up but I had grown tired of the games. Sometimes getting a Gold Star for “Plays well with others” is not the right thing to do.
You can see above the mindset of the “pack” at KnoxViews with what Andy Axel wrote. They believe if they scream at you long enough you will capitulate. It is very effective. Except for myself, Say Uncle, and Les. You stand your ground and the pack starts circling.
These members of the pack will forsake their own beliefs just to argue. Many times they would say “Of course #9 is an idiot but this time I agree with him”. Same with Say Uncle and Les. Always the pejorative before the agreement . You might call it conditional agreement.
This has been coming for a long time. The surprise is the extent of the purge. This is far left extremism. It is way past liberalism.
Isn’t it odd this happen during the Don Imus blowup?
April 11th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Is your real name Andy Axel? I’m just asking because if it is, that’s a pretty cool name.
It is. First (Andrew) and middle. The surname is completely routine, and easily sussed. First appearance of that handle was sometime around 1999, although I’ve noticed that a few other people are now glomming on to my nick. (Like the AndyAxel at Myspace. Not me.)
Axel was the given name of my granduncle, a coal miner and first-generation Swedish immigrant.
April 11th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Thanks for the history, no. 9.
We have a need for civil bi-partisan community online posting and chatting, but I seldom got that at KnoxViews, although I certainly enjoyed your, Uncle’s and Les’s postings.
Sure is, but I think that he is happy to see the Duke Lacross story knock him down the front page a little, kind of like 9/11 did with the Gary Condit-Chandra Levy saga.
April 11th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
After some digging I found the first mission statement from Knoxviews on 1/20/2006.
I think it is clear for even Andy Axel what the problem is. False advertising. Every time I or someone else complained that the User Agreement was not being honored it was changed. Management got tired of changing it so the final solution was implemented.
Now the circle is complete as Les wrote with an “ideological purge”.
It is a loss for everyone that worked to make KnoxViews a great forum. The idea to separate users into classes is just another example of far left classism.
It is funny and sad to watch the “Trusted Users” explain to the lower class “Untrusted Users” that they are overreacting. The view from the back of the bus is always different from the front of the bus.
April 11th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Digging? Do you mean you archive this stuff?
The view from the back of the bus is always different from the front of the bus.
Rosa “#9” Parks, ladies & gents. Crusader for the oh-so-very-underrepresented Republican caucasian male majority of Farragut.