Off to a bad start
Email received just a bit ago:
I’m a journalist at [redacted] in Paris; I came across your blog looking for information on rifle use in the US. I’m actually doing an article about gun use for children – if or if not it should be allowed/ encouraged.
I was wondering whether you’d be interested in commenting on this subject? We need someone to defend gun use. It would be great if you learnt how to use a gun as a child and could explain the benefits, or if you have children who use guns responsibly.
My response:
We don’t ‘use guns’ and we’re not ‘gun users’. It’s rather like you’re inferring we have some sort of mental affliction similar to drug users.
We shoot or fire guns. We are gun owners.
We’ll see how it progresses from there. Anything you want to add, do so in comments.
Update: She has since apologized, not realizing it was offensive. On to the questions.
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:53 am
I was going to say that you should take it easy on her. She’s French and gun ownership is a mystery to the Europeans.
This could be a decent lesson for her, don’t scare the really, really white people, right?
I’d be happy to help as well since I have very young children who are learning about firearms.
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:02 am
Yeah, Unc, don’t scare the white people. She’s having culture shock and speaks English as a foreign language. Let’s hope it’s a good article.
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:15 am
I imagine the main issue was English being a non-native language. I don’t imagine she was trying to offend you.
Are you going to post your full response when you write it up?
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 am
Not all… most European countries seem to be more sensible than the UK these days. France allows rifles and shotguns for hunting and sport shooting, though if I remember correctly handguns are heavily regulated (in a somewhat equivalent manner to full autos in most states over here).
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:23 am
Err…I think the connotation was ok from the journalist, because what about D.G.U.s? And you use the example of ‘using drugs’ – well what about ‘shooting drugs?’
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:02 am
I would be happy to add input if wanted. . . I am getting my now 13 year old daughter into shooting, she even joined our gun club as a junior.
For now she does target with .22 and .223 (yes, evil ar-15 she loves) She wants to do skeet but our range is down for now. . . .
We enjoy it as family time and she likes the challenge of getting a bullseye or hitting the clays on the berm. It is fun, teaches responsibility, control, practice and patience. Plus we get out side in the fresh air for a bit = )
And yes, she likes the bang, and watching the clays break. . . she is turning into a real gun gal. . .
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 am
Given her use of “learnt”, I would say she might be British. If so, she may be trying to write a sensible article to balance such non-sense as the banning of movie posters that seem to stylize gun violence. For the children of course.
See this posting on the banning of movie posters of the movie, “Wanted”.
http://gone-hollywood.com/2008/09/angelina-jolies-wanted-film-posters-banned/
September 3rd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
unc, just suggest she read the book: “a boy and his gun” by janes…
if she does, all of her questions will be answered…and if she comes away unswayed, then she is without a true heart, a thoughtful mind, or innocent intent.
jtc
September 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 pm
JKB, many Europeans learn *British* English, which compounds the comprehension problem when dealing with the USA.
If she’s French, I’d suggest she try to get a hold of a used copy of Pierre Lemieux’s _Le Droit de porter des armes_ (1993). Lemieux is a Quebecois libertarian philosopher up in Canada, very pro-RKBA.
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:38 pm
I wrote a post explaining a bit of the US “Gun Culture” to some non-US folks a while back. It isn’t really related to guns and kids, but it provides a good background for people who aren’t familiar with the US Constitution and such.
(Yes, I’ve just quoted myself….)
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I understand your skepticism, but your initial response seems a bit dickish.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 pm
I think you shouldn’t have bothered taking offense at it. It was probably just an oddity of phrasing due to her not being a native speaker. I would have waited until I received the questions to take offense, if at all.
It sounds like she may be advocating the teaching of gun safety at an early age, or at least be open to the idea. If you can show her that not only is it not harmful to teach children firearms safety but actually beneficial, I think that would be just what she is looking for (especially crime/accident rates amongst those who grew up around firearms or no firearms).
In any case, keep us updated.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Here’s my suggestion:
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Like any other kind of good habit gun safety is best learned when young. My father was a cop and both my brothers hunted, and I was taught to shoot at age 8. I’m now over 40 and I’ve never had a firearms related accident of any kind.
Teaching children to shoot at a young age also demystifies firearms. The child who is taught to shoot under supervision is less likely to go poking around in the closet looking for the forbidden fruit.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Did you point her in Kim’s direction. Seems like this would be right up his alley.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Did you point her in Kim’s direction? Seems like this would be right up his alley.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I think Kim is bowing out of the (public) activism role.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:34 pm
NRA rule three; “Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.”
I use guns. My kids use guns. I’m using one as I type (it’s on my person, loaded, for defense).
I started each kid at around age four or five. I consider it part of growing up and learning to be responsible. I also teach them proper gun use for safety reasons– there are plenty of gun in my house, and there are guns in most homes around here, so it only makes sense that a person learn at a young age how to properly handle them.
There is another safety component to teaching kids early– the curiosity factor. Guns have never been a mystery, a curiosity, or a big deal to my kids. Therefore they’re not tempted to get hold of Dad’s guns and fool around with them. They know that anytime they feel like it, I’ll take them and/or their friends out shooting or take a gun apart and show the inner workings. Any curiosity is thereby satiated at all times. They’ll never “freak out” at the sight or mention of a gun. Now at 16 and 11 years, they have their own guns.
The upshot is; my kids at 15 and 11 are more “grown up” about guns than 99% of all media pundits, journalists, and politicians.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:41 pm
I work with French people all the time in my job. They say things that sound really odd and somewhat elitist. They never mean it the way it sounds. It’s just a translation issue. I hope she reads this and we can help her with the article. Here is my input.
My daughter is nine and she owns a Ruger 10/22 rifle. This week I’m painting the stock purple and painting flowers on it. Why? Because I want her to enjoy shooting.
Shooting is a great way for her to feel “responsiblity” in a controlled environment. Every kid wants to shoot a gun. Unfortunately, most can’t or don’t. My daughter knows that feeling. Someday she will learn to drive. When I teach her about driving, the lessons will be an extension of the safety talks about guns.
Another reason is that its good Daddy time. Something Mom won’t do. I wish she’d go more with me.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Let me point out as a European (Belgian):
I was about to say: F*ck you Robb, but then I realized that much like certain democrats, you just don’t know the real situation.
My father thought me to shoot in my early teens, my stepdad is more passionate about guns than I am, a remnant of his military days. I take multiple classes with a member of the Belgian militaries medical component with whom I oft discuss the flaws and strengths of the FNC (5.56 NATO FAL) platform.
I live in “Europe” and I have family in the USA with whom I’ve spent some time, let the typifying of demographics be done by those familiar with both situations please.
“using a rifle” is simply a translation of “se servir d’un fusil”, which is used rather than “tirer” because the latter simply sounds ridiculous in any language when comparing handgubs Vs. Long guns.
September 4th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Unc, you should read this old post on subguns about a group from England asking for similar info (except video footage)
http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsgarchive.cgi?read=629630
I’m sure these could be different people with different agendas, but you can never be too careful.
September 4th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Chill the fuck out Michael, I’m pretty sure that Europeans don’t have nearly the prevalence of guns in their civilian culture that America does.
September 4th, 2008 at 6:09 am
You have run into two problems: language and culture. One: Her lack of complete fluency with English, or American-English, led her to that inappropriate word choice. Two: the culture there (I lived there for a year, and this is true across Europe) is largely hostile to guns (yes; there are European shooters, at least two with web sites – French, too! – but they are in a distinct minority, and I would bet that they do not advertise their shooting, much) and gun use (in farm country you can still find guns used, and during hunting season, but, even there, there is a time and place for guns to be acceptable), based on the indoctrination that you would expect. There may not be a fear but there is certainly a wariness of America due to the over-hyped shootings, here, and its wild west aura. I found more fear and wariness over the issue of guns and shooting than open-mindedness or even curiosity; certainly no acceptance. Anyway, have fun with the conversation, and too bad that you cannot take her shooting!
September 4th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Michael has a valid point. I based my statement on the fact that every time I read anything from a European perspective it’s so negative on the gun issue. That doesn’t mean that’s how it is, and I should have chosen my thought and words better.
Consider me f*cked off 😉
Damn, I hate it when I get caught in the same traps I bitch about others doing!
September 4th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
I’m not sure if your being set up or not. But what about Laetitia Daguenel ?
I remember some utube footage of her shooting IPSC
September 5th, 2008 at 11:39 am
I live in a very small town in the Oregon Outback (~2500 people @ 5000 feet) and am a Board member of the local gun club. We’re currently about halfway through building a new shooting range just outside of town.
One of the tenets of our Mission Statement is to provide regular gun safety and other weapons related educational classes to youth groups and individual kids (accompanied by adults, of course) throughout the area.
Everyone is excited and eagerly looking forward to our grand opening. Especially the kids! Here in the high desert where cougar, bears, bob cats, rattle snakes and mountain lions are seen on almost daily basis, EVERYONE understands the necessity of gun ownership. It’s a fundamental aspect of ranching and living in the “Wild West”.
My neighbor just lost one of his Jack Russell terriors to a cougar last week and a co-worker has a horse that she had to put down because it’s left hind quarters was mauled and eaten – presumably by a cougar. Last winter four horses were mauled less than 2 miles out of town.
All of this to say that guns are a vital aspect of living here. I realize things are drastically different in major metropolitan areas, but unfortunately draconian gun laws effect all of us – even those of us that rely on them to survive from day to day.
I would welcome and encourage your journalist friend to come to Lakeview and see for herself our youth educational gun safety courses.
And for what it’s worth, I’m fairly fluent in French (having lived there for 15 years) so there would be no language or cultural misunderstandings. Elle va etre bienvenu ici.