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	<title>Comments on: Poker Bill</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/30/poke-bill/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/30/poke-bill/</link>
	<description>Remember, I do this to entertain me... not you.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/30/poke-bill/#comment-199536</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=15522#comment-199536</guid>
		<description>I dunno, Payton Manning probably could consistently throw a football very well, but how many times you going to hit a gut-shot straight during the river?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, Payton Manning probably could consistently throw a football very well, but how many times you going to hit a gut-shot straight during the river?</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/30/poke-bill/#comment-199517</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=15522#comment-199517</guid>
		<description>There's a difference between luck/probability overall than in one specific instance. E.g., i recently lost shy of the money in a live tourney to a guy who caught running threes for the win. that's like 0.03% or something ridiculous. I'm not disputing that. But that is why you'll have trouble convincing a jury/judge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a difference between luck/probability overall than in one specific instance. E.g., i recently lost shy of the money in a live tourney to a guy who caught running threes for the win. that&#8217;s like 0.03% or something ridiculous. I&#8217;m not disputing that. But that is why you&#8217;ll have trouble convincing a jury/judge.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Stanton</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/30/poke-bill/#comment-199515</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Stanton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=15522#comment-199515</guid>
		<description>2 fallacies ... 

The Laws of Probability, often misnomered as "luck", should be applied &lt;strong&gt;GENERALLY&lt;/strong&gt; (long-term, overall results) - as opposed to &lt;strong&gt;SPECIFICALLY&lt;/strong&gt; (an individual hand, tournament or even an isolated period of time.  Logic is a science and one of the primary Informal Fallacies in Logic is "proving" the General by a Specific example (or vice versa).  

e.g., "The Native American is disappearing.  That man is a Native American.  Therefore, that man is disappearing ...."

There are "upsets" at every level of every athletic endeavor, every day ... that does not change the fact that Golf, e.g., is a game of skill - nor does it make Trevor Immelman more skillful than Tiger Woods, just because he won the Master's this year.

Moreover, essentially any event in life can be attributed to "luck."  (good or bad)  How you met your spouse, having a fender bender, finding a "perfect" house, being born to millionaire parents (or homeless drug addicts) ... are we going to criminalize all life experiences that involve good or bad fortune?

Being dealt pocket aces, in itself, conforms to the Laws of Probability and whether they win or lose does not reallly address the essence of the skill required to win at poker.

Specific cards / hands are, at best, tertiary in importance ... analysyes - and action on - situation, position, stack size, opponents' tendencies, etc. define the element of skill that is poker.

Senator Bill Frist, well-known criminal (insider trader), engineered the unenforceable and totally immoral law that cost English investors over $6 Billion on the London Stock Exchange.

IF poker is a game of "luck" and simply a matter of who get what cards, then we'd all lose 10% rake and be essentially tied in winnings.  Many of us win or lose consistently and have for years.  This defies the Scientific Laws of Probability.

I have challenged friends who don't know the game and do believe in "luck" - and I'll make the same challenge to Frist or any ignorant political crusader that relies on the "luck of the draw" and wants to run my life.

Heads Up - Or as a Group - We each start with 100 chips.  Mine cost me $500, there's cost them $100. Every time someone busts, we start over with the same 100 chip stack. We play until I say quit. 

Amazingly, these same friends say that it's just "luck", respond:  "Hell, no, you're a good player!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2 fallacies &#8230; </p>
<p>The Laws of Probability, often misnomered as &#8220;luck&#8221;, should be applied <strong>GENERALLY</strong> (long-term, overall results) - as opposed to <strong>SPECIFICALLY</strong> (an individual hand, tournament or even an isolated period of time.  Logic is a science and one of the primary Informal Fallacies in Logic is &#8220;proving&#8221; the General by a Specific example (or vice versa).  </p>
<p>e.g., &#8220;The Native American is disappearing.  That man is a Native American.  Therefore, that man is disappearing &#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are &#8220;upsets&#8221; at every level of every athletic endeavor, every day &#8230; that does not change the fact that Golf, e.g., is a game of skill - nor does it make Trevor Immelman more skillful than Tiger Woods, just because he won the Master&#8217;s this year.</p>
<p>Moreover, essentially any event in life can be attributed to &#8220;luck.&#8221;  (good or bad)  How you met your spouse, having a fender bender, finding a &#8220;perfect&#8221; house, being born to millionaire parents (or homeless drug addicts) &#8230; are we going to criminalize all life experiences that involve good or bad fortune?</p>
<p>Being dealt pocket aces, in itself, conforms to the Laws of Probability and whether they win or lose does not reallly address the essence of the skill required to win at poker.</p>
<p>Specific cards / hands are, at best, tertiary in importance &#8230; analysyes - and action on - situation, position, stack size, opponents&#8217; tendencies, etc. define the element of skill that is poker.</p>
<p>Senator Bill Frist, well-known criminal (insider trader), engineered the unenforceable and totally immoral law that cost English investors over $6 Billion on the London Stock Exchange.</p>
<p>IF poker is a game of &#8220;luck&#8221; and simply a matter of who get what cards, then we&#8217;d all lose 10% rake and be essentially tied in winnings.  Many of us win or lose consistently and have for years.  This defies the Scientific Laws of Probability.</p>
<p>I have challenged friends who don&#8217;t know the game and do believe in &#8220;luck&#8221; - and I&#8217;ll make the same challenge to Frist or any ignorant political crusader that relies on the &#8220;luck of the draw&#8221; and wants to run my life.</p>
<p>Heads Up - Or as a Group - We each start with 100 chips.  Mine cost me $500, there&#8217;s cost them $100. Every time someone busts, we start over with the same 100 chip stack. We play until I say quit. </p>
<p>Amazingly, these same friends say that it&#8217;s just &#8220;luck&#8221;, respond:  &#8220;Hell, no, you&#8217;re a good player!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/30/poke-bill/#comment-199510</link>
		<dc:creator>T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=15522#comment-199510</guid>
		<description>I could swear that at one time California law considered draw poker as a game of skill, and therefore not gambling, while stud was a game of chance and therefore illegal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could swear that at one time California law considered draw poker as a game of skill, and therefore not gambling, while stud was a game of chance and therefore illegal.</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/30/poke-bill/#comment-199507</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=15522#comment-199507</guid>
		<description>I made that same argument &lt;a href="http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/11/illegal_gambling_tomorrow/" rel="nofollow"&gt;a while back&lt;/a&gt;. And NASCAR, Football, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I made that same argument <a href="http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/11/illegal_gambling_tomorrow/" rel="nofollow">a while back</a>. And NASCAR, Football, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: drstrangegun</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/30/poke-bill/#comment-199505</link>
		<dc:creator>drstrangegun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=15522#comment-199505</guid>
		<description>If poker isn't a game of skill because of the luck involved, then what is professional bass fishing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If poker isn&#8217;t a game of skill because of the luck involved, then what is professional bass fishing?</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/04/30/poke-bill/#comment-199504</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=15522#comment-199504</guid>
		<description>If it wasn't a game of skill, I'd win when I play with my buddies!  The only time I ever won was playing strip poker in college, and that's because I cheated.  Clearly, there is some luck involved, but a lousy player will still lose in a tournament setup to a good player 99% of the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it wasn&#8217;t a game of skill, I&#8217;d win when I play with my buddies!  The only time I ever won was playing strip poker in college, and that&#8217;s because I cheated.  Clearly, there is some luck involved, but a lousy player will still lose in a tournament setup to a good player 99% of the time.</p>
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