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	<title>Comments on: Airplane Discharge Update</title>
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	<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/</link>
	<description>Remember, I do this to entertain me... not you.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Billy Beck</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197656</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197656</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;"Still, I’m not sure the pilots should be armed. In an emergency, I like the pilots to be in their seats getting the plane safely to the ground."&lt;/em&gt;

Oh, yeah?  Well, I say that that completely depends on the nature of the emergency.  If a bad guy somehow manages to get into the cockpit, the very last thing that I want is two aircrew in their seats like they're sitting in church.

Does the word "context" ever occur to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;Still, I’m not sure the pilots should be armed. In an emergency, I like the pilots to be in their seats getting the plane safely to the ground.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Oh, yeah?  Well, I say that that completely depends on the nature of the emergency.  If a bad guy somehow manages to get into the cockpit, the very last thing that I want is two aircrew in their seats like they&#8217;re sitting in church.</p>
<p>Does the word &#8220;context&#8221; ever occur to you?</p>
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		<title>By: JKB</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197650</link>
		<dc:creator>JKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197650</guid>
		<description>Mr. Boyd of the Boyd Group aviation consulting firm apparently doesn't watch Myth Busters either.  They tried their best to cause a catastrophic failure in a fuselage from a firearm round penetrating the skin and windows.  No joy.  Only a hissing sound as the pressure leaked out.  They didn't try but I suspect you could stop that with a piece of cardboard or gum.

If a round penetrating the skin will bring down a plane, then it is the height of negligence to allow Air Marshals to carry guns.  Where does TSA believe a round will go if the marshal happens to miss if he fires his weapon?

Still, I'm not sure the pilots should be armed.  In an emergency, I like the pilots to be in their seats getting the plane safely to the ground.  Now, if you wish to arm the flight attendants, well, that would be alright.  I wouldn't mind if they suspended the beverage service to put some terrorist down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Boyd of the Boyd Group aviation consulting firm apparently doesn&#8217;t watch Myth Busters either.  They tried their best to cause a catastrophic failure in a fuselage from a firearm round penetrating the skin and windows.  No joy.  Only a hissing sound as the pressure leaked out.  They didn&#8217;t try but I suspect you could stop that with a piece of cardboard or gum.</p>
<p>If a round penetrating the skin will bring down a plane, then it is the height of negligence to allow Air Marshals to carry guns.  Where does TSA believe a round will go if the marshal happens to miss if he fires his weapon?</p>
<p>Still, I&#8217;m not sure the pilots should be armed.  In an emergency, I like the pilots to be in their seats getting the plane safely to the ground.  Now, if you wish to arm the flight attendants, well, that would be alright.  I wouldn&#8217;t mind if they suspended the beverage service to put some terrorist down.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Lion</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197644</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Lion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197644</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;"At that altitude, you puncture the skin of an airplane, it's going to go down. They were very lucky," Boyd said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Maybe if your .40 round has a several-pound shaped charge stuck to it. Otherwise, no. 

And this guy runs an aviation consulting company?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;At that altitude, you puncture the skin of an airplane, it&#8217;s going to go down. They were very lucky,&#8221; Boyd said.</p></blockquote>
<p>Maybe if your .40 round has a several-pound shaped charge stuck to it. Otherwise, no. </p>
<p>And this guy runs an aviation consulting company?</p>
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		<title>By: Justthisguy</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197642</link>
		<dc:creator>Justthisguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197642</guid>
		<description>P.s. DC-6Bs, they were. My favorite airliner of all time for easy-going non-pretentious comfort. Ah for the days when airports smelled of gasoline, not kerosine!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.s. DC-6Bs, they were. My favorite airliner of all time for easy-going non-pretentious comfort. Ah for the days when airports smelled of gasoline, not kerosine!</p>
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		<title>By: Justthisguy</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197640</link>
		<dc:creator>Justthisguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197640</guid>
		<description>When I was a kid, I'm pretty sure I rode in a couple of airliners in which both pilots were armed. Got to go up in the flight deck, watch blinkenlights, little Delta wings pin, etc. 

You see, up until 1967 or so, there was this thing called "the Mail Gun."  If the plane was carrying US Mail, as most did, the flight crew were REQUIRED to be armed. Ernest K. Gann said in his autobiography how relieved they were when their line lobbied to allow them to unbuckle the gunbelts once airborne.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a kid, I&#8217;m pretty sure I rode in a couple of airliners in which both pilots were armed. Got to go up in the flight deck, watch blinkenlights, little Delta wings pin, etc. </p>
<p>You see, up until 1967 or so, there was this thing called &#8220;the Mail Gun.&#8221;  If the plane was carrying US Mail, as most did, the flight crew were REQUIRED to be armed. Ernest K. Gann said in his autobiography how relieved they were when their line lobbied to allow them to unbuckle the gunbelts once airborne.</p>
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		<title>By: Gun Blobber</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197636</link>
		<dc:creator>Gun Blobber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197636</guid>
		<description>Oops.  Somehow the quotes got dropped from my comment above.

Quote 1: "At that altitude, you puncture the skin of an airplane, it's going to go down. They were very lucky," Boyd said.

Quote 2: Mike Boyd, who runs the Colorado-based aviation consulting firm The Boyd Group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops.  Somehow the quotes got dropped from my comment above.</p>
<p>Quote 1: &#8220;At that altitude, you puncture the skin of an airplane, it&#8217;s going to go down. They were very lucky,&#8221; Boyd said.</p>
<p>Quote 2: Mike Boyd, who runs the Colorado-based aviation consulting firm The Boyd Group.</p>
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		<title>By: Gun Blobber</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197634</link>
		<dc:creator>Gun Blobber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197634</guid>
		<description>Quote from 2nd article:

&#62;

Uh, that's not true.  I don't know who this Boyd is or why he's being asked to comment.  Oh, right he's a consultant:

&#62;

Just another form of PSH.  "If a bullet punctures the skin, it's going down!" Same site claims the AP has a photo of the exit hole on the exterior of the plane.... and guess what, it landed just fine and none of the passengers ever even had any idea that it had happened:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/15704844/detail.html

So, it appears the pilot was probably fiddling with his gun in the middle of the flight and inadvertently pulled the trigger.  The trigger lock holster is obviously stupid and practically begging for something like this to happen, but why was the pilot messing with it during preparations to land?  It just doesn't make sense.

Fortunately there is a flight recorder that should pick up everything going on in the cockpit, so the truth will out sooner or later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote from 2nd article:</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>Uh, that&#8217;s not true.  I don&#8217;t know who this Boyd is or why he&#8217;s being asked to comment.  Oh, right he&#8217;s a consultant:</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>Just another form of PSH.  &#8220;If a bullet punctures the skin, it&#8217;s going down!&#8221; Same site claims the AP has a photo of the exit hole on the exterior of the plane&#8230;. and guess what, it landed just fine and none of the passengers ever even had any idea that it had happened:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/15704844/detail.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/15704844/detail.html</a></p>
<p>So, it appears the pilot was probably fiddling with his gun in the middle of the flight and inadvertently pulled the trigger.  The trigger lock holster is obviously stupid and practically begging for something like this to happen, but why was the pilot messing with it during preparations to land?  It just doesn&#8217;t make sense.</p>
<p>Fortunately there is a flight recorder that should pick up everything going on in the cockpit, so the truth will out sooner or later.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregg</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197633</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197633</guid>
		<description>Robert,
     Actually, AMERICANS should be able to carry...
It's one of the things that makes our nation different, or at least it was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,<br />
     Actually, AMERICANS should be able to carry&#8230;<br />
It&#8217;s one of the things that makes our nation different, or at least it was.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197615</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197615</guid>
		<description>The TSA has deliberately made this program as complex, asinine and idiotic as possible to discourage pilots from participating.  

  CCL holders should be allowed to carry anywhere, including in the cockpit, cabin, college campuses, church, et, et.

  This is only hard because liberals are MAKING it hard on purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The TSA has deliberately made this program as complex, asinine and idiotic as possible to discourage pilots from participating.  </p>
<p>  CCL holders should be allowed to carry anywhere, including in the cockpit, cabin, college campuses, church, et, et.</p>
<p>  This is only hard because liberals are MAKING it hard on purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: ParatrooperJJ</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197614</link>
		<dc:creator>ParatrooperJJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197614</guid>
		<description>Does anyone have that holster?  Is the lock slot not behind the trigger?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone have that holster?  Is the lock slot not behind the trigger?</p>
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		<title>By: Les Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197607</link>
		<dc:creator>Les Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197607</guid>
		<description>tgirsch, true, except for the takeoff and landing part. But I agree that statement is one big non sequitor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tgirsch, true, except for the takeoff and landing part. But I agree that statement is one big non sequitor.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristopher</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197606</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197606</guid>
		<description>Mo Atta could fly a 747 across an ocean ... but his landing would suck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mo Atta could fly a 747 across an ocean &#8230; but his landing would suck.</p>
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		<title>By: Yu-Ain Gonnano</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197600</link>
		<dc:creator>Yu-Ain Gonnano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197600</guid>
		<description>t,
I'm pretty certain he means legally.

Although, then that doesn't &lt;i&gt;logically&lt;/i&gt; follow.  More of a common sense follow.  In general, a person who has undergone the training and vetting needed to be trusted with the lives of hundreds of people in such a complex machine on such a routine basis should be able to be trusted with a much simpler machine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>t,<br />
I&#8217;m pretty certain he means legally.</p>
<p>Although, then that doesn&#8217;t <i>logically</i> follow.  More of a common sense follow.  In general, a person who has undergone the training and vetting needed to be trusted with the lives of hundreds of people in such a complex machine on such a routine basis should be able to be trusted with a much simpler machine.</p>
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		<title>By: Yu-Ain Gonnano</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197599</link>
		<dc:creator>Yu-Ain Gonnano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197599</guid>
		<description>Rule 5? Keep your pad lock out of the trigger guard until your sights are on the target?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rule 5? Keep your pad lock out of the trigger guard until your sights are on the target?</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197598</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/03/25/airplane_discharge_update/#comment-197598</guid>
		<description>This is a weird statement, though:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Boyd said he supports the program to arm pilots, saying, "if somebody who has the ability to fly a 747 across the Pacific wants a gun, you give it to them."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I'm not quite sure how &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; follows.  Mohammed Atta had the ability to fly a 747 across the Pacific...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a weird statement, though:</p>
<blockquote><p>Boyd said he supports the program to arm pilots, saying, &#8220;if somebody who has the ability to fly a 747 across the Pacific wants a gun, you give it to them.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not quite sure how <i>that</i> follows.  Mohammed Atta had the ability to fly a 747 across the Pacific&#8230;</p>
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