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	<title>Comments on: Another NICS in the wall</title>
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	<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/</link>
	<description>Remember, I do this to entertain me... not you.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: SayUncle &#187; NICS improvement bill</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173986</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle &#187; NICS improvement bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173986</guid>
		<description>[...] Buckeye Firearms has a fact sheet about the bill. Like I said before, the bill largely serves as a means to pay for things that are already law. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Buckeye Firearms has a fact sheet about the bill. Like I said before, the bill largely serves as a means to pay for things that are already law. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gringo_Malo</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173783</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo_Malo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173783</guid>
		<description>This bill has only been passed by the House, so far. It might be possible to get the NRA to withdraw support. It might even be possible to get our Senators to defeat it, or at least limit the information transmitted to the NICS database to records of indictment or information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This bill has only been passed by the House, so far. It might be possible to get the NRA to withdraw support. It might even be possible to get our Senators to defeat it, or at least limit the information transmitted to the NICS database to records of indictment or information.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173780</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173780</guid>
		<description>That's interesting.  I wish I had more of a legal background to comment on whether you could challenge that ATF reg if it was ever applied to you.  I wonder if anyone has tried?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s interesting.  I wish I had more of a legal background to comment on whether you could challenge that ATF reg if it was ever applied to you.  I wonder if anyone has tried?</p>
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		<title>By: Gringo_Malo</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173778</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo_Malo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173778</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;18 USC 921&lt;/a&gt; subsection (a)(14) says:

"The term “indictment” includes an indictment or information in any court under which a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year may be prosecuted."

I've never heard of an indictment coming from anybody but a grand jury. My state, Texas, uses both indictment and information:

&lt;a href="http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000021.00.htm#21.01.00" rel="nofollow"&gt;"An 'indictment' is the written statement of a grand jury accusing a person therein named of some act or omission which, by law, is declared to be an 
offense."&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href="http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000021.00.htm#21.20.00" rel="nofollow"&gt;"An 'information' is a written statement filed and presented in behalf 
of the State by the district or county attorney, charging the 
defendant with an offense which may by law be so prosecuted."&lt;/a&gt;

Again, an information is a bit more formal than an arrest. An information is written by a district attorney who intends to prosecute a person for some crime. A cop can arrest you and charge you with whatever he pleases just because he doesn't like your face. NICS denials based on a mere arrest go beyond the federal law. If federal agencies can make up their own laws, shouldn't we stop paying those bozos in Congress?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html" rel="nofollow">18 USC 921</a> subsection (a)(14) says:</p>
<p>&#8220;The term “indictment” includes an indictment or information in any court under which a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year may be prosecuted.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never heard of an indictment coming from anybody but a grand jury. My state, Texas, uses both indictment and information:</p>
<p><a href="http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000021.00.htm#21.01.00" rel="nofollow">&#8220;An &#8216;indictment&#8217; is the written statement of a grand jury accusing a person therein named of some act or omission which, by law, is declared to be an<br />
offense.&#8221;</a></p>
<p><a href="http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000021.00.htm#21.20.00" rel="nofollow">&#8220;An &#8216;information&#8217; is a written statement filed and presented in behalf<br />
of the State by the district or county attorney, charging the<br />
defendant with an offense which may by law be so prosecuted.&#8221;</a></p>
<p>Again, an information is a bit more formal than an arrest. An information is written by a district attorney who intends to prosecute a person for some crime. A cop can arrest you and charge you with whatever he pleases just because he doesn&#8217;t like your face. NICS denials based on a mere arrest go beyond the federal law. If federal agencies can make up their own laws, shouldn&#8217;t we stop paying those bozos in Congress?</p>
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		<title>By: Alphecca &#187; The NICS Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173770</link>
		<dc:creator>Alphecca &#187; The NICS Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173770</guid>
		<description>[...] Say Uncle has a nice round up on it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Say Uncle has a nice round up on it. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173751</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173751</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure that the definition of indictment is necessarily confined to charges leveled by a grand jury.  There are a lot of states that don't even use grand juries.  The ATF has decided to use the point of arrest for a felony as the regulation.  I agree it's probably not a reasonable boundary, even in states that don't use grand juries, but I'm not sure I'd expect the courts to rule against the ATF determination as to when someone can be considered "indicted" with a felony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that the definition of indictment is necessarily confined to charges leveled by a grand jury.  There are a lot of states that don&#8217;t even use grand juries.  The ATF has decided to use the point of arrest for a felony as the regulation.  I agree it&#8217;s probably not a reasonable boundary, even in states that don&#8217;t use grand juries, but I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d expect the courts to rule against the ATF determination as to when someone can be considered &#8220;indicted&#8221; with a felony.</p>
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		<title>By: Gringo_Malo</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173745</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo_Malo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173745</guid>
		<description>Sebastian said: "... because being charged with a felony is actually disabling."

Well, that's not exactly true. I was looking at subsection (g) of &lt;a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;18 USC 922&lt;/a&gt;, which lists nine classes of persons forbidden to possess a firearm. I should have looked at subsection (d), which lists nine classes of persons to whom one can't sell a firearm. The only difference in the two lists is that subsection (d)(1) says, "is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year."

There's a big difference between being charged and being indicted. An indictment is issued by a grand jury after a formal legal proceeding. Any cop can arrest anybody on any charge at any time. Sometimes grand juries refuse to indict people who've been arrested. An indictment is disqualifying. An arrest, in itself, shouldn't be. If the ATF regulations disqualify a buyer for an arrest without an indictment, then the ATF is making up its own laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sebastian said: &#8220;&#8230; because being charged with a felony is actually disabling.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s not exactly true. I was looking at subsection (g) of <a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html" rel="nofollow">18 USC 922</a>, which lists nine classes of persons forbidden to possess a firearm. I should have looked at subsection (d), which lists nine classes of persons to whom one can&#8217;t sell a firearm. The only difference in the two lists is that subsection (d)(1) says, &#8220;is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.&#8221;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a big difference between being charged and being indicted. An indictment is issued by a grand jury after a formal legal proceeding. Any cop can arrest anybody on any charge at any time. Sometimes grand juries refuse to indict people who&#8217;ve been arrested. An indictment is disqualifying. An arrest, in itself, shouldn&#8217;t be. If the ATF regulations disqualify a buyer for an arrest without an indictment, then the ATF is making up its own laws.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173739</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173739</guid>
		<description>I think it does violate separation of powers, but we have a long way to go before we convince most Americans to care, or the courts, for that matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it does violate separation of powers, but we have a long way to go before we convince most Americans to care, or the courts, for that matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Standard Mischief</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173738</link>
		<dc:creator>Standard Mischief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173738</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It really is quite insane. It would have been nice to get a standard written into some legislation, rather than being left up to the whim of the ATF.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Another evil black shotgun becomes a Destructive Device.

Another spring becomes a machine gun.

Another regulation pops up changing the definition of a de-milled firearm.

Another random rule on what constitutes armor piercing handgun ammo.

Meanwhile, back in the Constitution; you know, the &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;Supreme Law of the Land&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;, in Article I, Section 1, (being first after the preamble, so it's probably pretty important), it says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don't see diddly-squat about the power to delegate lawmaking powers to the Executive Branch. Doesn't that violate separation of powers?

But the NRA got significant concessions.

(Hanging together vs. tough love blog post being written right now)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It really is quite insane. It would have been nice to get a standard written into some legislation, rather than being left up to the whim of the ATF.</p></blockquote>
<p>Another evil black shotgun becomes a Destructive Device.</p>
<p>Another spring becomes a machine gun.</p>
<p>Another regulation pops up changing the definition of a de-milled firearm.</p>
<p>Another random rule on what constitutes armor piercing handgun ammo.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, back in the Constitution; you know, the <strong><em>Supreme Law of the Land</em></strong>, in Article I, Section 1, (being first after the preamble, so it&#8217;s probably pretty important), it says:</p>
<blockquote><p>All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t see diddly-squat about the power to delegate lawmaking powers to the Executive Branch. Doesn&#8217;t that violate separation of powers?</p>
<p>But the NRA got significant concessions.</p>
<p>(Hanging together vs. tough love blog post being written right now)</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173736</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173736</guid>
		<description>It really is quite insane.  It would have been nice to get a standard written into some legislation, rather than being left up to the whim of the ATF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It really is quite insane.  It would have been nice to get a standard written into some legislation, rather than being left up to the whim of the ATF.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173733</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173733</guid>
		<description>I see the section you were talking about.  Yes, it's true that it requires the record to be turned over for arrests for felonies, because being charged with a felony is actually disabling.  That's even a question on 4473.

I don't like it either, but that's what the law is currently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the section you were talking about.  Yes, it&#8217;s true that it requires the record to be turned over for arrests for felonies, because being charged with a felony is actually disabling.  That&#8217;s even a question on 4473.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like it either, but that&#8217;s what the law is currently.</p>
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		<title>By: Gringo_Malo</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173731</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo_Malo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173731</guid>
		<description>Okay, so I did find the definition of "adjudicated mentally defective" in the regulation &lt;a href="http://frwebgate2.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=766354398983+41+0+0&#38;WAISaction=retrieve" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Assuming that it's the right one. There are so damned many regulations. It still annoys me to be governed by brain-dead bozos who can't even identify the regulation to which their silly law refers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, so I did find the definition of &#8220;adjudicated mentally defective&#8221; in the regulation <a href="http://frwebgate2.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=766354398983+41+0+0&amp;WAISaction=retrieve" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Assuming that it&#8217;s the right one. There are so damned many regulations. It still annoys me to be governed by brain-dead bozos who can&#8217;t even identify the regulation to which their silly law refers.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173730</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173730</guid>
		<description>Got it.  Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got it.  Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Gringo_Malo</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173728</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo_Malo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173728</guid>
		<description>To find the full text of the bill, go to &lt;a href="http://thomas.loc.gov" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://thomas.loc.gov&lt;/a&gt;. Search for HR 2460. From there you can get to the bill's text. You can either look at multiple HTML pages, or download the PDF from the GPO's web site. That's what I did.

Most bills find their way to the Thomas site shortly after submission. The problem is to sort the wheat from the chaff. Most bills filed have no chance of passing. Some might be added as riders to massive appropriations bills; members vote on them without reading them. But given a bill number, you can usually find the text.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To find the full text of the bill, go to <a href="http://thomas.loc.gov" rel="nofollow">http://thomas.loc.gov</a>. Search for HR 2460. From there you can get to the bill&#8217;s text. You can either look at multiple HTML pages, or download the PDF from the GPO&#8217;s web site. That&#8217;s what I did.</p>
<p>Most bills find their way to the Thomas site shortly after submission. The problem is to sort the wheat from the chaff. Most bills filed have no chance of passing. Some might be added as riders to massive appropriations bills; members vote on them without reading them. But given a bill number, you can usually find the text.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173722</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173722</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Section 102(b)(1)(C) of the bill, at the top of page 14, seems to require that arrests be reported to NICS. 18 USC 922(g(1) makes ineligible anyone convicted of, not arrested for, but convicted of a crime punishable by more than a year’s imprisonment. It now seems that persons arrested for a crime will now be denied by NICS, whether convicted or not. Anybody can be arrested for anything.&lt;/i&gt;

Where are you finding the full text of the bill?  I haven't seen it anywhere except an excerpt on Hardy's site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Section 102(b)(1)(C) of the bill, at the top of page 14, seems to require that arrests be reported to NICS. 18 USC 922(g(1) makes ineligible anyone convicted of, not arrested for, but convicted of a crime punishable by more than a year’s imprisonment. It now seems that persons arrested for a crime will now be denied by NICS, whether convicted or not. Anybody can be arrested for anything.</i></p>
<p>Where are you finding the full text of the bill?  I haven&#8217;t seen it anywhere except an excerpt on Hardy&#8217;s site.</p>
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		<title>By: Alcibiades</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173721</link>
		<dc:creator>Alcibiades</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173721</guid>
		<description>Eventually, Google's cache will be changed/deleted, so better save a local copy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eventually, Google&#8217;s cache will be changed/deleted, so better save a local copy.</p>
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		<title>By: Standard Mischief</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173719</link>
		<dc:creator>Standard Mischief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173719</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If we’re going to let the same group who says that a shoestring is a machine gun also say who and who is not mentally unqualified to own a firearm, we are in big trouble.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Heh.

Oh and everyone needs to go to therapy, or at least try some kind of legal chemical enhancement to get themselves over life's little rough spots.

Oh and we really need to have some sort of state sponsored Hillary-care to take care of everyone. That's a right. Oh and don't worry about privacy, we'll just prosecute the holy hell out of anyone that does anything like that, right Tgirsch?

&lt;a href="http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/att_klein_wired.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;Mark Klein's leak about NSA's network monitoring hardware used to spy on American citizens. AKA Room 641A (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;

We're from the government and we'll never misuse your private medical records.

&lt;a href="http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/04/05/census-bureau-gave-up-wwii-internment-camp-evaders/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Census Bureau data misused to help round up American citizens of Japanese descent &lt;/a&gt;

And remember kids, meth = bad, prescribed Ritalin = good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If we’re going to let the same group who says that a shoestring is a machine gun also say who and who is not mentally unqualified to own a firearm, we are in big trouble.</p></blockquote>
<p>Heh.</p>
<p>Oh and everyone needs to go to therapy, or at least try some kind of legal chemical enhancement to get themselves over life&#8217;s little rough spots.</p>
<p>Oh and we really need to have some sort of state sponsored Hillary-care to take care of everyone. That&#8217;s a right. Oh and don&#8217;t worry about privacy, we&#8217;ll just prosecute the holy hell out of anyone that does anything like that, right Tgirsch?</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/att_klein_wired.pdf" rel="nofollow">Mark Klein&#8217;s leak about NSA&#8217;s network monitoring hardware used to spy on American citizens. AKA Room 641A (PDF)</a></p>
<p>We&#8217;re from the government and we&#8217;ll never misuse your private medical records.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/04/05/census-bureau-gave-up-wwii-internment-camp-evaders/" rel="nofollow">Census Bureau data misused to help round up American citizens of Japanese descent </a></p>
<p>And remember kids, meth = bad, prescribed Ritalin = good.</p>
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		<title>By: Standard Mischief</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173717</link>
		<dc:creator>Standard Mischief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173717</guid>
		<description>Proposed compromise: After ten years of clean living as a well functioning member of society, felons and other prohibited citizens (except for perhaps murder, rape, kidnapping...)   automatically get their rights back. All of them. 

It seems that the &lt;a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9785-2004Aug17.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;WaPo wants violent felons to get their right to vote back&lt;/a&gt;*, but they want people who get convicted of assault against a domestic partner (which could be as simple as tossing a glass of water in someone's face and a call to 911) to lose their rights to effective self-protection forever. 

The Post even gets it right with the minority angle, historically using  minor infractions to purge the voter rolls in teh southern states. Why they can't see the exact same bias with early "gun control" laws is beyond me.


* And please note that the title of this story is "Why Can't Ex-Felons Vote?". Yea, &lt;em&gt;ex-felons&lt;/em&gt;. Well &lt;em&gt;ex-felons&lt;/em&gt; can vote, except the ranks of ex-felons include Mark Rich and Bill Clinton's brother. Pardon me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proposed compromise: After ten years of clean living as a well functioning member of society, felons and other prohibited citizens (except for perhaps murder, rape, kidnapping&#8230;)   automatically get their rights back. All of them. </p>
<p>It seems that the <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9785-2004Aug17.html" rel="nofollow">WaPo wants violent felons to get their right to vote back</a>*, but they want people who get convicted of assault against a domestic partner (which could be as simple as tossing a glass of water in someone&#8217;s face and a call to 911) to lose their rights to effective self-protection forever. </p>
<p>The Post even gets it right with the minority angle, historically using  minor infractions to purge the voter rolls in teh southern states. Why they can&#8217;t see the exact same bias with early &#8220;gun control&#8221; laws is beyond me.</p>
<p>* And please note that the title of this story is &#8220;Why Can&#8217;t Ex-Felons Vote?&#8221;. Yea, <em>ex-felons</em>. Well <em>ex-felons</em> can vote, except the ranks of ex-felons include Mark Rich and Bill Clinton&#8217;s brother. Pardon me.</p>
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		<title>By: Standard Mischief</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173715</link>
		<dc:creator>Standard Mischief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173715</guid>
		<description>Pay no attention to the language of the bill behind the curtains. After all the WaPo says:

&lt;a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/09/AR2007060901080.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;To sign on to the deal, the powerful gun lobby won significant concessions from Democratic negotiators in weeks of painstaking talks. &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/a&gt;

That means that the NRA really did get "significant concessions" OR that the WaPo is spreading the NRA's talking points.

Far from being the standard mischief, the thought that the WaPo is the NRA's propaganda arm is like snowflakes in hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pay no attention to the language of the bill behind the curtains. After all the WaPo says:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/09/AR2007060901080.html" rel="nofollow"><br />
<blockquote>To sign on to the deal, the powerful gun lobby won significant concessions from Democratic negotiators in weeks of painstaking talks. </p></blockquote>
<p></a></p>
<p>That means that the NRA really did get &#8220;significant concessions&#8221; OR that the WaPo is spreading the NRA&#8217;s talking points.</p>
<p>Far from being the standard mischief, the thought that the WaPo is the NRA&#8217;s propaganda arm is like snowflakes in hell.</p>
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		<title>By: AlanDP</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173714</link>
		<dc:creator>AlanDP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173714</guid>
		<description>If we're going to let the same group who says that a shoestring is a machine gun also say who and who is not mentally unqualified to own a firearm, we are in big trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we&#8217;re going to let the same group who says that a shoestring is a machine gun also say who and who is not mentally unqualified to own a firearm, we are in big trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: Gringo_Malo</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173712</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo_Malo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173712</guid>
		<description>As I just remarked over on SnowFlakes in Hell, the bill decidedly does not clarify the meaining of "adjudicated mentally defective." It says that the term will have the "meaning given in regulations implementing section 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code, as in effect on the date of the enactment of this Act." You and I will probably be unable to find those regulations, and neither could the idiots who wrote this bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I just remarked over on SnowFlakes in Hell, the bill decidedly does not clarify the meaining of &#8220;adjudicated mentally defective.&#8221; It says that the term will have the &#8220;meaning given in regulations implementing section 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code, as in effect on the date of the enactment of this Act.&#8221; You and I will probably be unable to find those regulations, and neither could the idiots who wrote this bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Gringo_Malo</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173710</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo_Malo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173710</guid>
		<description>Section 102(b)(1)(C) of the bill, at the top of page 14, seems to require that arrests be reported to NICS. 18 USC 922(g(1) makes ineligible anyone &lt;em&gt;convicted&lt;/em&gt; of, not arrested for, but &lt;em&gt;convicted&lt;/em&gt; of a crime punishable by more than a year's imprisonment. It now seems that persons arrested for a crime will now be denied by NICS, whether convicted or not. Anybody can be arrested for anything.

The initial section of the bill is mildly amusing. It seems that out of 49 million firearms sales reported to NICS, 916 thousand, or 1.9 per cent, were denied. How many of the denials were legitimate, rather than cases of mistaken identity, is not reported. (Before I obtained my Texas CHL, I was routinely delayed by NICS, purportedly because I have a common name.) How many persons denied by NICS were prosecuted is not reported, but zero is the most likely number. The purpose of the law is merely to harass the law-abiding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Section 102(b)(1)(C) of the bill, at the top of page 14, seems to require that arrests be reported to NICS. 18 USC 922(g(1) makes ineligible anyone <em>convicted</em> of, not arrested for, but <em>convicted</em> of a crime punishable by more than a year&#8217;s imprisonment. It now seems that persons arrested for a crime will now be denied by NICS, whether convicted or not. Anybody can be arrested for anything.</p>
<p>The initial section of the bill is mildly amusing. It seems that out of 49 million firearms sales reported to NICS, 916 thousand, or 1.9 per cent, were denied. How many of the denials were legitimate, rather than cases of mistaken identity, is not reported. (Before I obtained my Texas CHL, I was routinely delayed by NICS, purportedly because I have a common name.) How many persons denied by NICS were prosecuted is not reported, but zero is the most likely number. The purpose of the law is merely to harass the law-abiding.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173708</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173708</guid>
		<description>A good summary.  I'm not sure about the funding issue though, because this entire bill is a funding bill, so it would seem that they would have to pass another bill that would cut off this funding, which would just put is back to where we are now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good summary.  I&#8217;m not sure about the funding issue though, because this entire bill is a funding bill, so it would seem that they would have to pass another bill that would cut off this funding, which would just put is back to where we are now.</p>
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		<title>By: Snowflakes in Hell &#187; Clarification on Language</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173706</link>
		<dc:creator>Snowflakes in Hell &#187; Clarification on Language</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/06/13/another_nics_in_the_wall/#comment-173706</guid>
		<description>[...] SayUncle says he can&#8217;t find where the language of adjudicated mental defective is clarified in....Â  After reading it again, I think I may have been mistaken.Â  The following section is what I was reading as clarification: (C) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without a finding that the person is a danger to himself or to others or that the person lacks the mental capacity to manage his own affairs. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] SayUncle says he can&#8217;t find where the language of adjudicated mental defective is clarified in&#8230;.Â  After reading it again, I think I may have been mistaken.Â  The following section is what I was reading as clarification: (C) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without a finding that the person is a danger to himself or to others or that the person lacks the mental capacity to manage his own affairs. [...]</p>
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