Call for Advice
A reader emails:
Was reading up on Walther PPKs, as it was recommended to me by a county police officer. My situation? I am a paraplegic with tremendous upper body strength and am finding I tend to get accosted lately in mall parking lots…when I’m getting back into my van. I carry police grade mace and a knife, but quickly realized these bozos must have been scoping me out because they picked the moment or two when I was MOST vulnerable to come up to the van and into MY space. Mace and knife both out of reach…
Question: where can I get info on permits and CC in North Carolina? I keep getting different answers from those I ask….and haven’t found the right website yet. This is new territory for me and I’m trying to get all the steps in order so I can find myself on the local shooting range, checking out which handgun will suit me best.
He also wants advice on which gun and carry set up to use. I have addressed wheelchair carry before but that person stated they had weak grip strength so I don’t think it’s completely applicable. I should point out that he wants to carry the gun on his person and not on his wheelchair. I, of course, recommended either a Sig, Glock, H&K or Springfield XD in any .4X caliber as the Walther, though easily concealable, doesn’t fire a powerful enough round. He also wants to carry in a shoulder holster for cooler weather and an ankle holster in warmer weather. So, if you have any advice, leave it in comments.
If you’re familiar with North Carolina’s CCW law, steer the gentleman in the right direction. I recommended he head down to the local range/gun shop and take a class. Those folks would provide him with the information on where/how to get a permit in addition to training him properly in the safety and handling of firearms.
He also writes:
A little background on me: I’ve been in a wheelchair for 30 years and moved to NC eight years ago. I have to admit I was NOT pro-gun for most of my life, but I have seen the error of my ways! I am 53 and value my independence above all else. My attitude now is that I’ll go do my shopping (or whatever) by myself and if anybody tries to F**K with me seriously, I’m going to be prepared and trained to defend myself.
There you have it.
Update: Apparently, the reader is not a he. I just assumed and we know what that does. So, she may not need the blond with a big chest that reader Robert suggested.
March 25th, 2005 at 5:12 pm
For starters, he can go to Packing.org for a brief overview of NC’s concealed carry laws.
I agree on the .4X or better; however may I suggest the S&W 340 or 360PD scandium framed .357 Magnum?
Small, very light, easy to conceal, and carries five rounds of .357 Magnum goodness.
And, as Kim du Toit is fond of saying, “If the bullet doesn’t kill ’em, the muzzle flash will set their fucking clothes on fire”…
March 25th, 2005 at 5:18 pm
If he lives in/near Raleigh, I’d be glad to meet up with him at a range for some shooting.
I need to review the printed materials I have at home, but here is a thumbnail sketch of what I remember:
1. To buy a long gun, you just have to pass the Brady/NICS check.
2. To buy a handgun, you must get a handgun purchase permit from the county Sherif. What you do is go down to the Sheriff’s office, fill out a form, and pay $5 per permit (you can get I think 5 at a time). Then come back in a week or so and pick up your permits. NB: this is only a permit to buy a handgun, and you give it to seller at the time of purchase (even from a non FFL seller). It is NOT a carry permit.
3. To get a CCW permit, you have to take a class from an approved instructor. The one I took was about 4-6 hours of class time going over the laws related to use of deadly force, plus an afternoon at a range. Then you have to go back to the Sheriff’s office and jump through their hoops.
Here’s a FAQ page about CCW in NC which might be helpful.
If you’d like to shoot some different handguns, I recommend Davi’s Guns in North Raleigh or Personal Defense & Handgun Safety Center in South Raleigh. They could also hook you up with a CCW instructor.
March 25th, 2005 at 5:35 pm
Well, first, how about a trip to Packing.org to see what the NC laws are. That ought to get the ball rolling on a legal liscense. Seems to me like I just read that Texas and NC are now reciprocal, so I bet the way is clear.
Second, you oughtta check out and see if the NC STATE Rifle association, (Check at: http://www.odcmp.com/) is around. Lots of times they have significant programs and resources for handicapped shooters.
On top of that, I’d locate an indoor shooting range somewhere close and go try out some different firearms. If you are big-handed, I’d shoot several, mostly 9mm and .45. Don’t commit to anything, but DO try several Glocks. Don’t buy a funny caliber or listen too much to police. Generally, police can’t shoot for beans.
Email this guy. He’s match director for NC action pistol shooting: sholar.powell@pgnmail.com (Wilmington) or crhodesX@aol.com (Clayton, NC) Tell him you need some local help. Tell him a Distinguished Rifleman and Team shooter in Texas said they WOULD help.
If anyone offers an indoor pistol course, take it. Many outdoor ranges have pretty good access but indoor ranges may have targets that will come to you. If not, take a blonde in a ball cap. Get one with a big chest.
I can’t tell you how much fun you are going to have. With shooting. Unknown about the blonde.
If you can’t get a blonde get the ten-year old boy from next door. He needs to go to the range as well.
I recommend the Glocks, Browning highpower. The Keltecs. Any 1911, (though that’s my second choice), any Sig sauer. Lot’s of great pistols out there. Don’t buy anything for a bit. Of course, if you only buy ONE gun, then you are only ONE gun away from having NO guns….so you might need two.
I’d go to a gun show and LOOK at pistols to educate my eye.
And whatever you get, shoot it a LOT so that you CAN shoot it. That’s a great thing about 9mm. You can get very lethal 9mm loads, and lots of cheap practice ammo.
And on a cautionary note: Having a gun won’t keep folks from F**king with you, and its not a killing offense. You never want to shoot anyone. Sounds like you bite like a snapping turtle and pinch like a rock lobster now…I’m sure you will hold your own. But shooting is FUN and carrying, while safe and legal, is pure joy.
Bottom line: I’d get a Ruger Mk II .22 and a Glock 19. I’d shoot them both once every couple of weeks at least. Eventually, when I was saltier, I’d get a Sig 45 or the Glock single stack .45.
It’s fun to learn stuff, and REALLY fun to learn shooting around some great folks!
March 25th, 2005 at 6:31 pm
Good lord. Gunswarm.
Make that the newer Mk III Ruger. get the .45 grip or the regular. It’s for you to shoot….and the blonde. She’ll love it.
Yeah and you’ll need to borrow a .357 revolver to shoot a little cheap 38 special in. Wal-mart has good ammo prices, so do the gun shows. So does academy and http://www.ammoman.com, cheaperthandirt.com.
Fun, fun, fun!
March 25th, 2005 at 7:47 pm
Thanks for the great responses and all the info. I’ve learned more in a few hours than I have in months. The right websites make all the difference. I’ve gone to several and printed out a bunch of info. Feel like I know what I’m doing now. At least where to start…
One website didn’t work, I think from Robert – the NC State Rifle Assn. Could you give that to me again, please? And, Robert? I AM the Blonde in the ball cap with the…let’s just say I’ve had a 30 year workout of 18 hours a day to build my upper body strength. Quite successfully.
I am in the Charlotte area and there is an indoor shooting range not far. They are also certified to teach the CCW class, so I’ll sign up for the whole thing. I am determined to be responsible about this and I think I’ll enjoy the prospect of becoming a regular at the range. Practice makes perfect. No, I don’t intend to ever shoot anyone, but I’m damn tired of being seen as an “easy mark”. I may even practice at the range for non-kill shots, in case I ever have to show my weapon and am STILL not taken seriously. A kneecap shot would quickly acquaint that potential mugger/rapist with the world of disability. Dont’cha think?
Seriously, my hands are VERY strong, but not as large as a man’s. I am ambidextrous and will practice with both hands at the range…to give me every possible advantage I may need. I appreciate all the recommendations on possible guns, but given that my hands are a bit smaller, are there better ones that would suit me? Any suggestions would be most welcome. Many thanks to all of you.
March 25th, 2005 at 8:00 pm
read as much as you can about the different types of guns.
I would suggest get the largest caliber you can shoot accuratly.
shoot some autoloaders and revolvers in all different sizes.
good luck.
also read this site a lot.
and remember SAFTEY first. I have been reading a lot about how ADs\NDs (accidential discharges or negliant discharges)
March 25th, 2005 at 8:20 pm
The PPK is a damn sexy gun. But that’s as far as it goes. evilwife has one and I hate the damn thing. The round is underpowered for anything but near defense and since the barrel is rigid mounted to the frame, it hurts to shoot it. Find a better gun. Get a glock or the sig. in .40 S&W or .45 ACP
March 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
As a general rule, wounding shots and warning shots are always illegal and you will go to jail for them. If you are shooting, you should be shooting center mass to stop (read kill) them.
March 26th, 2005 at 4:08 am
Forget the PPK, and come to think of it, forget any semi-auto altogether. Given that you’re being accosted when you’re “most vulnerable”, you want something you can grab and go with.
My suggestion: a S&W Mod 640, 686P or 60LS (Lady Smith, if you have small hands), loaded with .38 Spec +P hollowpoints. Ignore the “lightweight” models, because they’re uncontrollable, and ignore the .357 Mag because they’re also uncontrollable in a small-frame gun.
March 26th, 2005 at 4:10 am
Whoa… you need a permit to buy a pistol in NC? [scratches NC off list of states to live in]
March 26th, 2005 at 11:13 am
http://www.odcmp.com/ Try that to see if NC Rifle association is listed under clubs or state associations.
Thanks for not taking offense.
At ranges, people will often offer to let you shoot their pistols with their ammo. Always accept! And ask. Most folks very happy to share.
Ruger MkII and a Glock 19. Wonder if you can get the state to BUY them for you? Believe me, with the title XXX and the program YYY these days, there is NO telling what you might be able to come up with as support.
Don’t shoot people! Or even think about it. Just shoot targets, educate yourself and have fun! Sounds like you have plenty of help.
I’d lurk on this site, Smallest Majority, Instapundit, Kim dutoit, and their links. Lots of information out there.
Oh, when shooting at the range, I’d wear a longsleeved turtleneck and a ballcap. And I’d get my own earmuffs. They are ranked by decibel reduction, 19 or 29 usually. More is better.
March 26th, 2005 at 11:20 am
I carry pistols in a hard-bottomed plumbers bag, usually about 10-15 bucks from Home depot. It closes with two velcro straps and has double handles on the top. Carries like a big purse. The hard bottom keeps it from sagging under the gun and ammo weight. Inside I keep my muffs, rag, babywipes to clean hands at the range. Keeps it all organized. There ARE more expensive bags from gun manufacturers.
March 26th, 2005 at 12:04 pm
I appreciate all the great info being offered. The URL worked, Robert, and I’ll see if there’s any program or assistance they can offer me.
No, I really don’t want to shoot anyone. I take everyon’e advice to heart: read, research, listen, learn, ask questions….and begin to practice with different guns. I have a lot to learn about CCW alone. I agree that once I begin to go to the shooting range, I’ll get even more info and good advice and coaching there.
Thanks for the recs on different models and calibers. I’ll just have to try out a bunch and see what works for me. Also appreciate the tips on what I’ll need for the range. Haven’t carried a purse in decades, but have a sturdy, large backpack on the back of my chair. I’ll see if THAT will carry my range stuff (good tips on supplies to have!) and hope my center of gravity isn’t knocked off too much.
No offense taken, Robert. It just took me a while to stop laughing at the assumption, altho I AM partial to male blondes!
Y’all have been SO helpful and it’s most appreciated. I’ll keep reading here and elsewhere. And, hey, permit or not, NC is a great state…one of the best kept secrets in the US of A!
Keep the advice coming…I can use all the info I can get. I’ll keep you updated on my progress. There’s a huge Army/Navy supply store not far from me. Guess I’ll go check it out for that ball cap.
March 26th, 2005 at 12:13 pm
Thanks for the heads-up on non-kill shots. I had no idea. I’ve got a lot to learn. No, I have no interest in seeing the inside of a jail. I know too many Corrections Officers and it isn’t a place I want to be. Didn’t know about the warning shot either. Wouldn’t THAT be a deterrent and prefereable to taking my “center mass” shot first? Seems to me, the most I could be charged with is discharging a weapon within the city limits. Guess I’ve gotta read up on the laws…
March 26th, 2005 at 1:15 pm
http://www.AIMsurplus.com had PPKs, or walthers on sale. Just so you can start educating yourself on gun prices.
March 27th, 2005 at 8:59 pm
“Seems to me, the most I could be charged with is discharging a weapon within the city limits.”
Depends on where the bullet goes. In TN you are leagal and fininally responsible for where you bullet goes. So if you hit someone, or it richoets off the ground and hits a car you will have to pay for the damages.
Also the lawyers fees will probably break you before you got the the damages.
in some states if you had time to fire a warning shot you were not in danger of you life, and therefore could be charged if you actually shot he person after they continued to attack you.
March 27th, 2005 at 9:40 pm
Forget shooting people. It’s illegal and they jerk, yell, scream, and throw a fit! Just learn to shoot a pistol WELL. That’s the ticket.
Don’t forget air pistols. Much fun, and indoors!
March 28th, 2005 at 8:59 am
And I hope you give uncle some updates about what goes on.
March 29th, 2005 at 2:50 am
You betcha I’ll give updates as I make progress. I really appreciate all the comments and advice I’ve received here. This gun stuff is a legal quagmire… (what you can and can’t do) but I reckon I’m not tellin’ ya anything you don’t already know.
In the meantime, Real Life intrudes, as I find my dog suddenly sick and struggling with a lot of pain. BTW, does anyone here hunt with Jack Russels? I’ve had two in my life and find them fantastic dogs. Yes, too much irresponsible breeding going on now, but if you get a good one, they are naturals for hunting, especially with horses. Uncle, your comments recently on the proposed ban on fox hunting in England intrigued me particularly because of the tie-in with Jacks. They are stupendous dogs. Hope I am able to get another one someday…but would buy from an English breeder to keep the breed as pure as possible.
Soon as I sort out my dog’s problem, I’ll proceed with permit and get to the gun range. Still looking for the right ball cap, though. But looking forward to checking out handguns. Lots of great suggestions here and on the websites I’ve been directed to.