This could get interesting
NY gun shop raided by ATF* for SAFE act violations. Supposedly have a stack of form 4473s.
Remember, kids, you sold that upper already. Or boating accident. Right?
* wouldn’t that be a job for the state police?
14 Responses to “This could get interesting”
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December 8th, 2015 at 8:45 pm
I think ATF raided them for some reason, and THEN discovered the SAFE act violations.
December 8th, 2015 at 8:49 pm
Don’t worry about the uppers, it’s the lowers that were in the boat.
December 8th, 2015 at 10:11 pm
Here we go..
December 8th, 2015 at 11:03 pm
I understand that 4473’s must be acquired with a LAWFUL 4th Amendment warrant with probable cause.
December 8th, 2015 at 11:07 pm
Don’t the 4473 go somewhere when a shop closes?
December 8th, 2015 at 11:15 pm
Aren’t they required to be kept for 10 years? Are they destroyed at the end of ten years? So if you purchase a gun and keep it beyond ten years, it should be undocumented. And I guess sometimes there may be a fire and those 4473’s are gone. Sometimes thieves break in and steal. What if they stole the forms?
December 8th, 2015 at 11:20 pm
The retention period is for 20 years. 4473s go to a big warehouse in West Virginia when the shop closes where they are scanned and put into a big database that they will swear is not a registry because it’s just scanned images of 4473s, but a lot is still on paper because they get more forms than they will ever have time to scan.
FFLs have to comply with applicable state laws. It’s a federal issue if they do not. But I agree with the previous poster: they were probably looking for something else and happened to find SAFE Act violations.
December 9th, 2015 at 11:04 am
Why do they need the guns as evidence if they have detailed receipts/invoices showing exactly what the guns are/were?
December 9th, 2015 at 2:48 pm
Isn’t SAFE an “ex post facto” law making previously obtained legal firearms illegal which is prohibited by the Constitution?
December 9th, 2015 at 3:16 pm
The prohibition of “Ex post facto” isn’t quite that broad reaching. It means that you can’t say that someone possessing something PRIOR TO THE DATE THE LAW WENT INTO EFFECT is a breach of the law (or similarly, that a sale that took place before the law went into effect is illegal). But it can still render possession of existing items (as long as the possession is after the effective date of the law) as illegal.
So they can tell you that as of a given date, the item you own is illegal, and arrest you if you have it. But they can’t arrest you for having owned the now-illegal item prior to the effective date.
December 9th, 2015 at 4:11 pm
“So they can tell you that as of a given date, the item you own is illegal, and arrest you if you have it. But they can’t arrest you for having owned the now-illegal item prior to the effective date.”–Rich D
OK, I can see that. But it seems that NY is now acting in violation of that, unless they are going after only those who acquired “illegal” weapons after the law’s effective date.
Hopefully there will be a lawsuit to force NY to obey it’s own law according to “the equal protection of the laws” (14th Amendment) .
December 9th, 2015 at 8:36 pm
New York has become Kafkaesque.
From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of Kafkaesque
Popularity: Top 20% of words
1
: of, relating to, or suggestive of Franz Kafka or his writings; especially: having a nightmarishly complex, bizarre, or illogical quality
December 10th, 2015 at 7:54 am
Since about 90% of buyers never registered them per the SAFE Act, that should be a reasonably close list of violators, is probably what they are thinking. I’m thinking those ATF agents would be foolish enough to inspect a black powder magazine with a candle in their hand.
December 11th, 2015 at 12:37 am
I think this guy did make at least one mistake.
He should have contacted a lawyer immediately.
Thank God my state does not have many of those laws. The pistol purchase permit is bad enough.