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So, what caliber for riot?

Police shoot black guy. Black people riot. I’d suggest avoiding riots. But these guys opted for 5.56 for riot:

Nobody is robbing St. Louis Ink Tattoo Studio anytime soon. Or County Guns, for that matter.

The two north county businesses share a storefront in a Florissant strip mall less than ten minute drive from the epicenter of last night’s riots in Ferguson. After nightfall, what began as a community’s peaceful demonstration against the Ferguson Police Department’s shooting of unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown turned increasingly violent. Crowds plundered a QuikTrip and burned it to the ground, and local news began reporting brazen raids on other stores in the area.

After hearing of the roving bands of looters, Mike Gutierrez knew he had to protect his tattoo shop. He brought a posse with him, including Adam Weinstein, owner of County Guns, who was acutely worried about criminals getting their hands on his merchandise.

If this was LA, once the riots were over the police would come and arrest you.

13 Responses to “So, what caliber for riot?”

  1. Matthew Carberry Says:

    I noted on Twitter that “posse” is more diverse than the rioters.

    Yet it’s the thugs who get the attention, not the solid citizens who share the same values regardless of color.

  2. Lyle Says:

    “Yet itís the thugs who get the attention, not the solid citizens who share the same values regardless of color.” As it has always been. Take heart, then, in being ignored! That’s the best you can hope for. It’s either that or you’re being attacked by the forces of evil, which is another form of compliment. Consider it an opportunity to acquit yourself with aplomb.

    I’d think just about any caliber would do the job– It’s not the gun after all, but the man behind it, and likewise it’s not the caliber. Bring what you have, even if it’s nothing but confidence and resolve. Little David slew the armored Goliath with naught but a sling, a keen eye and a steady hand.

  3. Standard Mischief Says:

    Why it’s almost like armed property owners are a deterrent to crime or something.

    I guess you would have to conclude that the mere display of a firearm, without a shot being fired, is ofttimes enough to deescalate a situation without a “shootout at the OK coral” scenario.

    Who knew?

  4. Mr Evilwrench Says:

    I think I’d go with a 5.56 with 30rd mags rather than a sling; there was just one Goliath standing there, not a gang of them swarming up the street. Probably go with the 7mmRM for Goliath anyway; I don’t have much range time on a sling.

  5. mikee Says:

    I recall back when OJ was on trial, I was living in a solid white suburb of Baltimore. My neighbor kept saying that if OJ wasn’t convicted, he was going to start a riot in our neighborhood, because, hey, fair is fair, right?

    Good times. No riot followed the Not Guilty verdict. Damn white privilege showing its ugly face again.

  6. Linoge Says:

    I would argue that quantity has a quality all its own when it comes to riots, but, on the other hand, no one exactly wants to get shot, so the mere presence of a firearm may be sufficient, so long as that presence is known.

    Still, I am glad to see someone abided by the Second Rule of Gunfights (and more glad that it did not actually come to a gunfight, for the shop owners’ sake).

  7. Michael Says:

    What kind of rifle is the third guy from the left carrying? Is that a suppressed, short barreled AR?

    Something tells me he’s the one that owns the gun shop.

  8. Sid Says:

    Applaud what they did.

    But I have my doubts about what would happen if the display of weapons did not deter the crowd. Mobs do not run and yell “we are going to kill you”. They slowly grow. They move from the street into the parking lot. From teh parking lot, they move onto the sidewalk. Then, someone anonymous throws an anonymous brick thru the front window or door. Then, another random person peeks into the broken window. Then, anything within reach is grabbed. Then, the floodgates open.

    Point being, if the presence of guns does not deter the crowd, what can you legally do? You are certainly not allowed to shoot people for being in a parking lot or on the sidewalk. Before you jump up and down and scream about your rights, think this over.

    Remember that the jury and prosecutor are not in fear of their lives when you are on trial.

  9. snoopycomputer Says:

    Sid, what can you do? Why… Performance Art of course!
    Have a friend lay face down on the parking lot, spray a bunch of ketchup all over the place, be sure to make a big puddle next to his head. Then stand over the body, ol’ Betsy in one hand, cup of coffee in the other.
    Let rioters make their own conclusions.

  10. Sid Says:


    That worked for the Stucci brothers.

  11. Bobby Says:

    Sid : According to the Missouri Revised statutes … game on.

    … and as Andrew Branca is fond of quoting, “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.”

  12. Sid Says:


    Good link. But it does not address the original question. I don’t think many sane people would argue that a property owner did not have a aright to use force to protect themselves, their employees, or their property. The real question is where is the line drawn? Again, mobs don’t announce they are going to smash windows and ransack buildings with notice. It would seem from my reading of the law you posted (former MP office not a lawyer), that the property owner would have to move into the store and shoot only when a threat is perceived. Again, not because of the bright line law but because of the mob characteristics. Mobs evolve. They can be modulate between banging peace drums and throwing bricks and back to singing Kumbaya. There is no clear line. Brandishing a weapon may work (in this case it did). But if the mob slowly rolled across the street, into the parking lot, and onto the sidewalk (assuming the parking lot is not posted private property)…. you get my question?

  13. Sid Says:

    Sorry for the typos.