Got word of the situation in Colorado via radio this morning. First thought was wondering how long before the feds say it’s not terrorism. And the next words out of the broadcaster’s mouth was that.
And how quickly did politicos start playing pin the political label on the nut job?
Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.
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July 20th, 2012 at 11:03 am
He was Tea Party as per ABC by at least 9 AM.
Turned out they had the wrong Holmes’ Facebook.
July 20th, 2012 at 11:04 am
And on the flip side, he’s being identified as an OWS supporter.
July 20th, 2012 at 11:08 am
So was the Tea Party affilation verfied incorrect?
I mean, he was trying to imitate Bane is sounds like. The creator of Bane describes him as more of an OWS type.
What sickens me is that when I hear of one of these kind of things anymore, my first thoughts are of the political and 2A consequences. And the only reason for that is because I know the assault will begin from The Left immediately. There is no time to contemplate the tragedy itself.
I am very embarassed to admit that.
July 20th, 2012 at 11:12 am
Bloomberg’s already out the gate. Demanding a national conversation on gun control.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Mayor-Bloomberg-Gun-Control-Violence-Colorado-Movie-Theater-Shooting-Mass-Murder-163166416.html
And he’s staring his very own Theater Secruity Administration.
“As a precaution against copycats and to raise the comfort levels among movie patrons in the wake of the horrendous shooting in Colorado, the New York City Police Department is providing coverage at theaters where the ‘The Dark Knight Rises’ is playing in the five boroughs,” Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said in a statement.”
Comfort levels.
July 20th, 2012 at 11:24 am
So, Bloomberg has the police resources to secure theaters showing a specific movie. So, the disarmed, law-abiding, tax-paying, terrorized public outside those theaters (who could use additional cops on the streets) can go “pound sand”, then? Got it.
On a tactical note, the latest info indicates the shooter rolled a flash-bang grenade into the theater, had a shotgun, a rifle, two handguns, and a protective vest. How in the hell do you train for something like that? It’s dark, your senses have been assaulted by the flash-bang, everyone is panicking, people tumbling over each other, a well-armed adversary, center-mass ain’t gonna work so you better make it a head-shot and it better hit the first time or you’re toast. Jesus….
July 20th, 2012 at 11:25 am
I read this article: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/07/20/uk-usa-shooting-denver-idUKBRE86J0AJ20120720
Always wanting to learn from real events, these points/tactics stood out to me:
-maybe best to get an isle seat in a theater? Not much manuver room in a see-the-screen-best middle seat
-I should ALWAYS carry my IFAK and flashlight. (usually do) Here you have gunshot victims in the dark that need help
-IFAK should contain a tourniquet or equivalent/I need to learn the best improvised method
-even though police response was “a minute or two”, the people present were still on their own while it was happening
July 20th, 2012 at 11:47 am
Mike,
Not really. Follow-ups shot do need to incapicitate/kill. But too many see some idealized performance of bulletproof vests. Even with SAPI plates, taking a round in a bulletproof vest causes trauma. Layman’s terms – it hurts like hell. Unless the shooter was on drugs which interferred with his pain receptors, he is not going to begin returning fire.
A shot center of mass is a good starting point. As with all defensive gun use, every pull of the trigger has liability. In this situation, shoot him. There is no need to try for a high-benefit/low probability headshot at the beginning of the encounter.
July 20th, 2012 at 11:55 am
This movie and its release have been, well weird. Rotten tomatoes shut down their comments due to threats against negative reviews and (at this early phase) it appears the attire and equipment this loon was carrying is Bane villainesque. His firearms seems secondary. Flashbangs and a booby-trapped apartment like the Denver media is reporting is more than just a mere gun owner. Of course, that won’t stop the smears and attacks of the shrieking left.
July 20th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
This is all mitt romney’s fault.
or something.
July 20th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Confirmed, the Jim Holmes they reported in the Tea Party is not the same one.
July 20th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
If he WAS in #OWS…
How bout gun control for Leftist Progressives only? For one thing they are all about banning guns, so ban theirs. For another, they seem to do the most damage in the senseless tragedy department.
No?
July 20th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
How could this have happened? Weren’t there “No Guns” signs posted???
July 20th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
Dirk — good question.
It behooves the gun-owning community/blogosphere to get ahead of this right quick. ‘Cause I guara-damn-tee you the other side is gonna latch onto anything to scream for more restrictions on guns and CCW.
CO is a shall-issue state, but was the theater posted “No Guns”? Is there some city ordinance that prohibits carry in theaters? Denver is notorious for pulling all sorts of shenanigans to limit where you can carry.
July 20th, 2012 at 1:03 pm
I don’t understand why this would be political.
I understand that the statist thugs will try and use this to disarm us.
I understand that those who don’t wish to be subjects of the state will oppose that disarmament.
I don’t understand the desire to assign any political leaning to this turd bucket though.
July 20th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
To finish my thought: Denver is notorious for pulling all sorts of shenanigans to limit where you can carry, and Aurora is just next door (so may suffer from the same anti-gun mindset as Denver).
July 20th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
Was reported that he broke into the theater through an emergency exit door. No signs there. Plus, since door was obviously unsecure from the outside, does this bring liability on the theater chain?
July 20th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
HL: I don’t blame you for that one bit. I have the same thoughts. The Left’s bad faith is simply that reliable.
snoopycomputer: Simpler approach: wait until late in the run to see the movie. That solves and/or pre-empts a lot of issues associated with seeing movies.
July 20th, 2012 at 1:27 pm
Seems he was an Black bloc Ows extremist..
July 20th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Hmmm. Right on time for the run up for Hillary and Teh Won to sign the UN Arms Trade Treaty.
Ever notice whenever there’s some large gun control event, legislation, etc. is looming one of these gruesome events precedes it? “See? SEE? We NEED this (latest infringement)!”
July 20th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
HL said:
“What sickens me is that when I hear of one of these kind of things anymore, my first thoughts are of the political and 2A consequences. And the only reason for that is because I know the assault will begin from The Left immediately. There is no time to contemplate the tragedy itself.
I am very embarassed to admit that.”
Yes, I also. I used to think it was paranoia on my part. I’m not so sure anymore.
July 20th, 2012 at 1:42 pm
Looks like Cinemark, which owns the theater where the shooting took place, prohibits guns as a matter of corporate policy:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/cinemark-theaters-no-legal-firearms-allowed/
I don’t go to movies that much anymore, but I’ve avoided two theaters (in VA) for having these types of policies. In one case, I just waited for the movie to show up on Amazon DVD; in the other, I went to a different theater chain.
Allowing ourselves to be disarmed by government bureaucrats is stupid. How much dumber is it to allow yourself to be disarmed by some pencil-necked corporate drone in Peoria, knowing you have a choice to say “Shove it where the sun don’t shine” and go somewhere else?
July 20th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
In IN, those signs do not have force of law, so I just ignore them. Concealed is concealed. They can ask me to leave if they find out, and if I refuse it becomes trespassing. However, I’d rather find out whether they’d be assholes about it afterward if I saved a whole theater full of sheeple, than become one of them.
July 20th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
@ Mike: Which theaters in VA? I always keep an eye peeled for a sign, but so far haven’t spotted one yet.
July 20th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
One story said he “propped the exit door open.” Presumably he bought a ticket, went out for his gear, then came back. I can’t see something this planned out relying on managing to break in a secured exit door.
As for carry in theatres, signs have no force of law here (AK), so here’s my inconsistency; I’m all about the right of private business owners to ask patrons not to carry on their property and generally abide by their posted wishes, -but- per the law, if I’m carrying concealed an authorized agent of the business owner has to actually ask me to leave to enforce that right. So I somewhat hypocritically use the “rule of law” loophole when it suits me.
July 20th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Some interesting info from the press conference.
He used an AR15, a Remington 870 12-gauge shotgun, and 2 40-cal Glocks. No info on how many rounds were fired, other than “many, many”, or how many magazines, or the size of the magazines. He was described as wearing a ballistic helmet, vest, leggings, groin and throat protection, a gas mask, and tactical gloves, all in black.
12 killed – 2 DOA at hospitals, 10 at scene, 59 injured, many critically. One of those injuries was in an adjacent theater.
No information on how he got into the theater was given, though it sounds like they know how it happened.
They claim that it was 90 seconds from the first 911 call to when they arrested him outside of, and behind, the theater. Sounded like they got there, found him outside the theater, and arrested him – so it would appear he finished shooting before he was confronted by anyone.
They had no information yet about whether the guns were legal. They did say he had no criminal record, and had only received a single traffic ticket, at least in Aurora. They don’t believe it was terrorist related.
His apartment is booby-trapped, with apparent chemical and incendiary devices, wired together with “all kinds of wires”. They have bomb techs trying to figure out what they’re going to do about it.
July 20th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Tactics: Is it viable to aim center mass legs and keep firing at his knees/legs until he’s down?
I’m speaking only of an active shooter wearing body armor and a ballistics helmet.
July 20th, 2012 at 2:34 pm
MrSatyre — They were Cinemark-owned theaters in No. Virginia. They tried to play it “cute” — their company policies were clear as a bell on their website (always check to make sure), but they didn’t post signs so they wouldn’t raise a ruckus. Technically, they could only ask me to leave, but why patronize them with my money?
July 20th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
And, with all that armor, he surrendered immediately to the first armed person he encountered.
July 20th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Frankly, guys, this is a no-win situation.
If my family is in that theater, I’m kissing ‘em goodbye and: running towards the shooter, shooting my gun empty and re-loading on the move, shooting center-mass and at head, and head-shots all the way the closer I got to him. I’d do this knowing full well that my life was forfeit. The guy was well-armed, and well armored, and I am certain he would have shot me multiple times before I got close enough to cap him one in the brain. Unless there are multiple CCW’ers in that scenario, this is a “Kobayashi Maru” self-defense incident.
It’s like throwing yourself on a hand-grenade: there are times when it’s impossible to pick it up and throw it away, and the only choice left is to buy the lives of innocents with your own.
July 20th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
Talk about a good boost for the UN small arms restriction movement…
July 20th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
yet another reason why I want to carry a Kel Tec PLR-16. Rifle rounds FTW.
July 20th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
According to FOX News at 3 PM EST, he had a drum type magazine. No CCW.
BTW, the still insist on calling it a “clip”.
July 20th, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Look for ATF to exclude gun purchases from anyone who has ever portrayed a malevolent comic book character.
This will give Kelley his chance to be Commissioner Gordon. Instead of millions in Fed G funding for counter-terrorism, he needs a Billionaire hero. Oh wait, that’s Bloomberg, aka BatBloom. By day he prevents evil against your waistline! By night he…???
July 20th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
This makes me think about the lack of a weapon light on my carry gun. I can’t think of many good options here for a compact gun with a decent light. Maybe they’ll make a lightguard for the new M&P Shield. Any ideas for good options currently that don’t require carrying a double stack?
July 20th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
This is a strong case for a concealed carbines.
July 20th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
jason.. carry a flashlight? And in this case, gas mask?
I think the real thing her is.. there were people running past him to get out (from the accounts i heard)
A bunch of SHEEP ran away. no one even tried to tackle him or anything.
July 20th, 2012 at 6:14 pm
I heard on the radio….a law enforcement officer of some type…don’t know who state paraphrase: “Do I wish that there had been an off duty cop there with a side arm? Certainly. But half a dozen or a dozen untrained civilians with guns that had never carried their firearms in a dangerous situation…no.”
I almost ran off the road. He is effectively saying that it was better for those people to be defenseless and dead than there be SOME chance of fighting back because those “civilians” might shoot someone. 71 dead and injured is better than half a dozen CCW’s in the the theater.
July 20th, 2012 at 6:32 pm
Lots of lefties are saying “now is a good time to talk about guns and the Second Amendment”.
Now? Why not last week? Oh….
July 20th, 2012 at 6:43 pm
@cargosquid
Most anti-gun people can’t wrap their heads around responsible conceal carry. It just doesn’t fit the template. The fact that you would even want to conceal carry means you are Charles Bronson and it’s Deathwish III time.
I’m a cop, and I would take six CCW over one off-duty anyday, for no reason other than it tips the playing field. Six vs. One is better odds than one vs. one.
July 20th, 2012 at 7:26 pm
@Jeff
I just had this discussion with my wife. It took her a little while but came around to that opinion too.
July 20th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
Gun free, except for the bad guy, and of course the FIRST call is for more gun control, nothing about sympathy for the vitims or their families… dancing in the blood again!
July 20th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
The movie was crap, too.
July 20th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
That other Jim Holmes that was in the Tea Party and did not do it–I bet he is on the TSA no fly list now.
July 20th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
@Bob Smith
What makes you think he wasn’t already? He does affiliate himself with the Radical Tea Party movement. Probably even supports third party candidates, too. Friggin’ non-commie.
July 20th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
If he was a violent OWS sympathizer, one of the “Black Bloc”, then the movie must have infuriated him. I understand that the movie can easily be seen as an OWS bash, and that leftist movie critics have trashed it because of that.
Anti-OWS movie + violent OWSer = dead moviegoers?
Maybe he didn’t want people seeing what he regarded as counter-revolutionary propaganda. Anger and the political left are becoming synonymous, and anger easily leads to violence.
July 20th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
I second the person talking about shooting low center mass. Most vests are relatively short, if you can get even a couple of rounds into the groin area it should slow the person down and maybe you’d hit an artery or break a hip or leg bone and bring the person down. Better odds than a head shot, especially in a dark, crowded theater. Heck, that was how I was taught in the early days (’70s)…two to the center mass chest, two to the groin and if they still aren’t stopping then they should be close enough to risk a head shot.
July 20th, 2012 at 10:31 pm
Well it looks like the Aurora movie theater banned guns there (Denver and the surrounding area is VERY LIBERAL.). So those with a CCW (in Texas it’s called a CHL) were banned form bring their gun. So EVERYONE was disarmed. Yes a ‘gun free zone’. That is where mass murders go cause they don’t want to DIE.
I just home the movie theaters here don’t stupidly ban CHL holders from bring guns as they are the FIRST defense against nutjobs like this one in Aurora.
Oh and if you run into such a nutjob.. head shots only cause so many of them wear body armor. Just practice head shots!
WHY? So any missed shots go up and past other bystanders heads and they don’t get hit. Practice alot folks cause these nutjobs need to be put down.
July 20th, 2012 at 10:33 pm
I’m thinking that a laser on your pistol would be a fine idea in a dark theater.
July 20th, 2012 at 10:57 pm
Back in March in Chicago 10 people were killed and another 50 wounded in shootings over one weekend and the press, politicians, and President didn’t seem to care.
July 20th, 2012 at 11:09 pm
First things first
To those referring to the PEOPLE in the theater as sheep or sheeple, FUCK YOU. People are dead, at least hide your bravado and “I’m a sheepdog” inferences for a little bit. Also, since you weren’t in the theater, please do not pontificate about what the moviegoers did or did not do.
I think, as a dad… I pray that I would possess the resolve to do whatever I could to buy my family time. But in a dark theater, with panicked people fleeing for their lives and terrified for their loved ones… I just don’t think that “winning” was ever an option, just different levels of tragedy.
It’s not about caliber.
It’s not about guns.
It’s not about laws.
It sure as hell isn’t about politics.
It is completely about the falsehood of “safety”. Safety is sought after as if it is an item to be discovered. A physical talisman that once obtained shields the holder from harm. It just isn’t. The concept is too easily shattered by the wicked acts of the determined to the deranged. When the veil is lifted, many complain that they “should” have been safe; that something should “be done” to “make” them safe in the future. It doesn’t matter which side of an argument you fall on, the realization that we are almost always vulnerable to evil is disconcerting. So, humans cling to their news talismans which will “make them safe”, be it bullets or bans.
Safety is a falsehood, yet evil is real. This monster attacked families, couples, and friends. His reasons don’t matter; everything is overshadowed by his heinous deed. His cowardice in surrender is infuriating. No “justice” can undo what he has done.
The lessons taken from today: love my family, tell them I love them, and pray my resolve doesn’t falter should I need to buy them the time to escape.
July 21st, 2012 at 7:53 am
Agree 100% 22lr…
It’s all about hate and ignorance left and right.
July 22nd, 2012 at 9:53 pm
“It’s all about hate and ignorance left and right.”
Apparently, this one was about hate from the left. Murderous hate. Left wing hate.