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By the time I get to Arizona

Papers please.

So, about that immigration bill. One of the dumber ideas out there. It requires police to verify the citizenship of those they have reasonable suspicion to believe are illegal immigrants. In other words, if you look Mexican, they might ask you for your papers. And police can be sued for not enforcing the law.

Sure, illegal immigration may be a problem. But randomly harassing people is not the best solution to that problem.

68 Responses to “By the time I get to Arizona”

  1. SPQR Says:

    Godwin’s Law.

  2. Sebastiantheguywithnoblog Says:

    Call them out? Sure. Enforcing the law is still a Federal power. Not something the state can do.

    This isn’t hard, guys.

  3. SayUncle Says:

    Whats the record number of comments for a post on your blog Uncle?

    Top 5: Link, link, link, link and link.

  4. John Smith Says:

    I see this as no different than any other type of police harassment. I get hassled simply for how I look or that my car does not cost high in the 5 figures. What do I care if they come up with another reason. When I came over the border in my semi from canada. The border guard accused me of being a russian sneaking into the border and that was only a 4 years back. As I said no big deal.

  5. mike Says:

    everyone is looking at the law and what ‘might’ happen.

    but all we need to do is look at what’s already happening and know this opens the doors for abuse. Border patrol is already illegally detaining and harassing Citzens at the checkpoints found now on EVERY roadway in Southern AZ, 40+ miles from the border. ICE has hundreds of US Citzens in custody, and in some cases have deported Citizens to countrys they have no ties to.

    Im not so concerened with the rights of illegals being violated but those of US Citizens because a LEO doesnt happen to belive they are here legally. Of course aliens need to carry their papers around, but we Citizens do not. AZ is full of Citzens of Mexican descent who have never set foot in Mexico. Is there no concern for how they will be treated if they cant produce on the spot proof of Citzenship? And once in ICE custody it becomes damn near impossible to obtain that proof because as a suspected alien you are denied rights of due process and legal representation afforded Citizens.

    The only answer is that border patrol needs to be enforcing immigration AT the border. But that isnt going to happen because simply, the mexicans shoot at agents across the border and it’s much safer for them to be 40 miles away detaining US Citizens.

    Just because the law states one thing does not in anyway ensure it wont be violated, intentionally or not. There is too great a potential for violations of the rights of US Citzens for this law to be considered good.

  6. mike Says:

    “As someone who carries a firearm, I have to present identification to the law enforcement when Iím in legal contact with them.

    Remember, for someone with a CHL, that is basically anything more then shooting the breeze with a cop.”

    AZ does not require that unless asked.

  7. Jake Says:

    Im not so concerened with the rights of illegals being violated but those of US Citizens because a LEO doesnt happen to belive they are here legally. Of course aliens need to carry their papers around, but we Citizens do not. AZ is full of Citzens of Mexican descent who have never set foot in Mexico. Is there no concern for how they will be treated if they cant produce on the spot proof of Citzenship?

    Mike has stated pretty exactly my – and I think most people’s – main concern with this law.

    Remember everybody, laws should be written as if they are meant to be enforced by your worst enemy.

  8. RosieRac Says:

    My concern is the same as Mike’s and Jake’s: Legal citizens being unlawfully deported. A little over 1% of the deportations are done accidentally.

    The internet has scores of horror stories of people (US citizens) who have been deported by mistake, usually to countries they have no ties to.

  9. Chris Says:

    My concern is the same as Mikeís and Jakeís: Legal citizens being unlawfully deported.

    The internet has scores of horror stories of people (US citizens) who have been deported by mistake, usually to countries they have no ties to.

    Sounds like your beef is with the feds, not Arizona. Even with this legislation, Arizona can’t deport on their own authority.

  10. straightarrow Says:

    I’m not even going to try to educate the “touchy-feely” crowd. You’re just wrong and don’t seem to know a damn thing about the laws that have been in effect for a very long time. So now you’re all butthurt over a state doing what the Feds have been doing on a selective basis? Puhleeze!

  11. Paul Says:

    Well I’m required to carry my DL and my CHL, which pretty much proves I’m an American. So what’s the big deal.

    The LEOs are supposed to look at the total circumstance of the situation. If the one being interviewed does not speak english, has no ID, AND HAS BEEN STOPPED FOR AN INFRACTION OF THE LAW, well yea, they can ask for citizenship I would think!

  12. hank Says:

    You said: “Sure, illegal immigration may be a problem. But randomly harassing people is not the best solution to that problem.”

    First, I call bullshit – we don’t care if it is the best solution or not. Insisting on the “best” solution is the same as prohibiting any solution – somebody will always complain that things should have met some higher standard. What we should be looking for is a “good enough” solution, and this may be part of one.

    Second, with the modern politically correct rules and regulations, checking people at random is about all there is left. We can’t pick people because they speak Spanish, or have a thick accent, or have brown skin, or are named Mario or Jose, or even Mohamed.

    Third, calling a identification check in the course of a traffic stop or other police contact “harassment” is an exaggeration – either that or I have been harassed during every ticket I’ve ever received, and every break-in that I have reported.

    What this all boils down to is that some people have a political agenda that biases them against border enforcement, and I think that may include you.

  13. Rignerd Says:

    My son got stopped in Oklahoma the other day, speeding just a little. He gave his DL to the officer, and the officer recognized his name. he had just stopped someone with the same name not an hour earlier!. they reviewed the dash cam, and a “friend” of my son’s was seen getting out of his truck.

    I support arresting and detaining people who cannot provide positive ID, especially if they are driving, until their true ID and status can be determined. If they are fugitives or illegal aliens then they can be dealt with. If they just left their DL in their other pants a call or two and they should be on their way.

    I also support showing .GOV issued ID before voting. maybe they need to have a no cost ID for non drivers above 18, but you should present a convincing proof of citizenship and identity before it is issued.

  14. tjbbpgobIII Says:

    Every one of us on this blog today have to prove our citizenship every time we change to a new job. This was in a bunch of laws pass during the Clinton years. I say if there illegal send them home or to Guantanmo bay like the terrorist they are becoming. Seriously though does anybody remember a time when any sort of crisis happened in this country and the Feds or the popo didn’t go all crazy on our own citizens. Hell, I can it’s happened to me twice. Once profiled by a cop for having patriot and prior military stickers on my car. Once or twice for the car I was driving WHITE MAN IN A CADILLAC, WHITE MAN IN A CADILLAC.

  15. Ken Says:

    Since when does the constitution that was paid for with American blood work for folks that aren’t willing to go through the steps to become American?

    You’re spitting on patiots graves to call this unconstitutional.

    How many illegals do you see in your neck of the woods? Where I grew up you could empty whole neighborhoods by just driving a green van. They would think you were the border patrol.

    I don’t like the papers idea, but dumping the problem back on the people might get it fixed. Americans do things when we’re pissed.

  16. Ken Says:

    Since when does the constitution that was paid for with American blood work for folks that aren’t willing to go through the steps to become American?

    You’re spitting on patiots graves to call this unconstitutional.

    How many illegals do you see in your neck of the woods? Where I grew up you could empty whole neighborhoods by just driving a green van. They would think you were the border patrol.

    I don’t like the papers idea, but dumping the problem back on the people might get it fixed. Americans do things when we’re pissed.

  17. straightarrow Says:

    Uh no! Remember the high school in Ca. where the students lowered the American flag, turned it upside down and flew it UNDER the Mexican flag? NOt only no, but Hell no. These children are not the issue of immigrants who wish to be American. They are the offspring of an invading horde of enemies of this country. Were I governor, I would have closed that school, denied any transfers to other schools and told them to look to Mexico for their education.

    They have the right to stand up in their own home and make it better rather than stealing the labors of others.

    Let them fix their own country instead of ruining ours by turning it into where they left.

  18. Laughingdog Says:

    I’m a little late to the party on this one, but I have a big issue with one fallacy that Uncle threw in there.

    “And police can be sued for not enforcing the law.”

    You can file a suit for damn near anything. But if you try to sue the police for not enforcing the law, you’re going to lose. First, there’s Castle Rock v. Gonzales. The police refused to help a woman whose children were abducted by their father. The USSC said she can’t sue, despite the fact that the kids were killed in the end by the father.

    Second, the executive branch of the government, at any level, is not required to enforce every law. They are only limited to enforcing no more than the laws enforced by the legislative branch. That’s supposed to act as a check against the legislative branch passing stupid laws. Sadly, it never seems to work out that way. Prosecutors and the police will joyfully enforce absolutely any stupid law out there if it will get their arrest/conviction numbers up, or generate some revenue.

Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.

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