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	<title>Comments on: Handgun Carry Permit Registration Update</title>
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		<title>By: Number9</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212068</link>
		<dc:creator>Number9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212068</guid>
		<description>They just wanted to see if we care.

Now they know. 

Spreading the love, Say Uncle at work. Making America better, one post at a time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They just wanted to see if we care.</p>
<p>Now they know. </p>
<p>Spreading the love, Say Uncle at work. Making America better, one post at a time.</p>
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		<title>By: _Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212055</link>
		<dc:creator>_Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212055</guid>
		<description>Sorry Tam, but after working with State employees for a bit now, I can say that it was intentional.  No one creates a form and sends it outside the office without a) a committee, b) at least one level of supervision of that person reviewing the form.
In this case, if it was the result of an audit, then the auditors or auditor&#039;s liaison had to sign off on it too.

So at least 4 people saw those fields and said &quot;ok&quot;.  They weren&#039;t stupid.  And - as I mull it over - the form probably had an official form number (in the bottom of the form, most official forms - public or internal - have a form number and effective date.  That form number has to be registered with the state.  So someone in that office looked at the form and went &#039;no issues here&#039;.

So at least 5 people saw those fields and said &quot;ok&quot;.

They may have been ignorant that they weren&#039;t allowed to gather that information, but they were probably driven by an agenda as well.  In the back of their mind, everyone knows that registration leads to confiscation.  And that&#039;s what libs want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Tam, but after working with State employees for a bit now, I can say that it was intentional.  No one creates a form and sends it outside the office without a) a committee, b) at least one level of supervision of that person reviewing the form.<br />
In this case, if it was the result of an audit, then the auditors or auditor&#8217;s liaison had to sign off on it too.</p>
<p>So at least 4 people saw those fields and said &#8220;ok&#8221;.  They weren&#8217;t stupid.  And &#8211; as I mull it over &#8211; the form probably had an official form number (in the bottom of the form, most official forms &#8211; public or internal &#8211; have a form number and effective date.  That form number has to be registered with the state.  So someone in that office looked at the form and went &#8216;no issues here&#8217;.</p>
<p>So at least 5 people saw those fields and said &#8220;ok&#8221;.</p>
<p>They may have been ignorant that they weren&#8217;t allowed to gather that information, but they were probably driven by an agenda as well.  In the back of their mind, everyone knows that registration leads to confiscation.  And that&#8217;s what libs want.</p>
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		<title>By: Tam</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212049</link>
		<dc:creator>Tam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212049</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;For that matter; don’t quote me on anything (except this sentence).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Are you sure about that? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>For that matter; don’t quote me on anything (except this sentence).</p></blockquote>
<p>Are you sure about that? <img src='http://www.saysuncle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Linoge</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212043</link>
		<dc:creator>Linoge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212043</guid>
		<description>Well, I shot off an email to the DoS this morning after first hearing about it - something tells me I was not alone.  Good to see that the situation was cleared up and taken care of, though I really do have to wonder if this was a &quot;throw it against the wall and see if it sticks&quot; maneuver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I shot off an email to the DoS this morning after first hearing about it &#8211; something tells me I was not alone.  Good to see that the situation was cleared up and taken care of, though I really do have to wonder if this was a &#8220;throw it against the wall and see if it sticks&#8221; maneuver.</p>
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		<title>By: Joat</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212042</link>
		<dc:creator>Joat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212042</guid>
		<description>Here in Minnesota we have to take a training course 3 to 8 hours depending on the trainer and shoot a live fire qualification.  But we can carry in bars, we can even drink as long as we don&#039;t go over a .04% blood alcohol level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in Minnesota we have to take a training course 3 to 8 hours depending on the trainer and shoot a live fire qualification.  But we can carry in bars, we can even drink as long as we don&#8217;t go over a .04% blood alcohol level.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212041</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212041</guid>
		<description>For that matter; don&#039;t quote me on anything (except this sentence).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For that matter; don&#8217;t quote me on anything (except this sentence).</p>
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		<title>By: Lyle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212040</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212040</guid>
		<description>WTF is a “certificate of completion“?
It&#039;s pretty loose.  Anything demonstrating that you&#039;ve had the minimum  required time of instruction in the safe handling and use of a handgun (I think it&#039;s two hours but don&#039;t quote me on that-- it&#039;s been years since I did mine. besides, I got far more instruction than was required).

I wouldn&#039;t say we have &quot;good&quot; gun laws (the second amendment is about the only good gun law).  It&#039;s just that our laws carry fewer constitutional infringements than those of most other states.  In WA state, you&#039;re supposed to have a permit before you carry concealed, but there&#039;s no instruction requirement.  Idaho recognises WA&#039;s carry permit, too.  The two states have a &quot;reciprocal agreement&quot;, but even so I kept permits from both states for a while.  Very few cops actually knew WTF was going on in that regard.  I think they&#039;re slightly better now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WTF is a “certificate of completion“?<br />
It&#8217;s pretty loose.  Anything demonstrating that you&#8217;ve had the minimum  required time of instruction in the safe handling and use of a handgun (I think it&#8217;s two hours but don&#8217;t quote me on that&#8211; it&#8217;s been years since I did mine. besides, I got far more instruction than was required).</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say we have &#8220;good&#8221; gun laws (the second amendment is about the only good gun law).  It&#8217;s just that our laws carry fewer constitutional infringements than those of most other states.  In WA state, you&#8217;re supposed to have a permit before you carry concealed, but there&#8217;s no instruction requirement.  Idaho recognises WA&#8217;s carry permit, too.  The two states have a &#8220;reciprocal agreement&#8221;, but even so I kept permits from both states for a while.  Very few cops actually knew WTF was going on in that regard.  I think they&#8217;re slightly better now.</p>
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		<title>By: Tam</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212038</link>
		<dc:creator>Tam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212038</guid>
		<description>PPS:

&lt;blockquote&gt;A certificate of completion is all that’s required in Idaho&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I thought y&#039;all had good gun laws out there in the hairy-chested West. WTF is a &quot;&lt;em&gt;certificate of completion&lt;/em&gt;&quot;? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PPS:</p>
<blockquote><p>A certificate of completion is all that’s required in Idaho</p></blockquote>
<p>I thought y&#8217;all had good gun laws out there in the hairy-chested West. WTF is a &#8220;<em>certificate of completion</em>&#8220;? <img src='http://www.saysuncle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tam</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212036</link>
		<dc:creator>Tam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212036</guid>
		<description>(The solution, of course, is to do away with the useless, ceremonial, ghey, unconstitutional &quot;qualification&quot; course.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(The solution, of course, is to do away with the useless, ceremonial, ghey, unconstitutional &#8220;qualification&#8221; course.)</p>
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		<title>By: Tam</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212035</link>
		<dc:creator>Tam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212035</guid>
		<description>Never assume malice where stupidity will suffice.

I guarantee you that they were looking at this from the standpoint of a regulatory agency, concerned with minimizing liability should they certify someone who actually &quot;qualified&quot; with an M1 Pencil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never assume malice where stupidity will suffice.</p>
<p>I guarantee you that they were looking at this from the standpoint of a regulatory agency, concerned with minimizing liability should they certify someone who actually &#8220;qualified&#8221; with an M1 Pencil.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212026</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212026</guid>
		<description>&quot;...an attempt to create a handgun registry which, while not the department’s intent...&quot;

If that wasn&#039;t their intent, what other possible intent could they have had?

&quot;The roster [of makes and models] which was created in response to a Department audit finding, is used to verify certificates that are turned in after the class.&quot;  What possible use is there for a list of makes and models if they don&#039;t require you to train on the same gun you&#039;ll be carrying?  I say this is nothing more than a left-over from attempts to create a firearm registry, and as such it should be eliminated post haste.

A certificate of completion is all that&#039;s required in Idaho, and it says nothing about any particular gun.  All that&#039;s required to verify your certificate is to cross-check with the instructor&#039;s records.

&quot;The caliber is not required information.&quot;  Most model numbers these days are caliber-specific anyway (XD-40, Glock 21, etc.) especially for autos, which are far more popular for carry, so that&#039;s mostly a line of crap.  Just sayin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;an attempt to create a handgun registry which, while not the department’s intent&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>If that wasn&#8217;t their intent, what other possible intent could they have had?</p>
<p>&#8220;The roster [of makes and models] which was created in response to a Department audit finding, is used to verify certificates that are turned in after the class.&#8221;  What possible use is there for a list of makes and models if they don&#8217;t require you to train on the same gun you&#8217;ll be carrying?  I say this is nothing more than a left-over from attempts to create a firearm registry, and as such it should be eliminated post haste.</p>
<p>A certificate of completion is all that&#8217;s required in Idaho, and it says nothing about any particular gun.  All that&#8217;s required to verify your certificate is to cross-check with the instructor&#8217;s records.</p>
<p>&#8220;The caliber is not required information.&#8221;  Most model numbers these days are caliber-specific anyway (XD-40, Glock 21, etc.) especially for autos, which are far more popular for carry, so that&#8217;s mostly a line of crap.  Just sayin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Rustmeister</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212025</link>
		<dc:creator>Rustmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212025</guid>
		<description>As I wrote my (state) Senator and Rep, I was thinking - they&#039;re all off for Christmas now, aren&#039;t they?

Good to see it wasn&#039;t an issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I wrote my (state) Senator and Rep, I was thinking &#8211; they&#8217;re all off for Christmas now, aren&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>Good to see it wasn&#8217;t an issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212024</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212024</guid>
		<description>Thanks for clearing that up. I just got the NRA letter telling me about this at lunch today. I was going to call them this afternoon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for clearing that up. I just got the NRA letter telling me about this at lunch today. I was going to call them this afternoon.</p>
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		<title>By: Tam</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212023</link>
		<dc:creator>Tam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212023</guid>
		<description>Anon,

They used to, before reform. I thing the training completion certificates are vestiges of the old system.

Y&#039;all need to get rid of the training requirement in TN. We didn&#039;t have it in Georgia and don&#039;t in Indiana, and you don&#039;t hear of anybody getting OK-coralled by untrained by permit holders in either of those states, do you?

Bonus: In Indy, you can carry in a frickin&#039; bar if you want to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon,</p>
<p>They used to, before reform. I thing the training completion certificates are vestiges of the old system.</p>
<p>Y&#8217;all need to get rid of the training requirement in TN. We didn&#8217;t have it in Georgia and don&#8217;t in Indiana, and you don&#8217;t hear of anybody getting OK-coralled by untrained by permit holders in either of those states, do you?</p>
<p>Bonus: In Indy, you can carry in a frickin&#8217; bar if you want to.</p>
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		<title>By: Rustmeister</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212021</link>
		<dc:creator>Rustmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212021</guid>
		<description>Boy, I hope not, I traded that Bersa years ago.  =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy, I hope not, I traded that Bersa years ago.  =)</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212018</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212018</guid>
		<description>no</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212017</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212017</guid>
		<description>Does TN restrict permit holders to whatever specific make and model firearm listed on their training certificate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does TN restrict permit holders to whatever specific make and model firearm listed on their training certificate?</p>
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		<title>By: Number9</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/12/18/handgun-carry-permit-registration-update/comment-page-1/#comment-212015</link>
		<dc:creator>Number9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=20757#comment-212015</guid>
		<description>Say Uncle, making America better.

&lt;i&gt;She stated that her office is in the process of issuing retraction letters regarding the requirement of serial numbers from carry permit instructors in the rosters that are required from each school.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Say Uncle, making America better.</p>
<p><i>She stated that her office is in the process of issuing retraction letters regarding the requirement of serial numbers from carry permit instructors in the rosters that are required from each school.</i></p>
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