Comments on: ND

By: jimmyb

jimmyb — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:15:47 +0000

Shot my dresser once when I wss in my 20’s.
Still feel bad about it.

By: Mike Gallo

Mike Gallo — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:54:47 +0000

I’ll look into it – I really like the clean two-stage on this thing (surprisingly nice break), but it does tend to be really easy to bump-fire because of the short reset stroke. No doubt, though, 7.62×39 going off in a basement at 2030 hours is LOUD.

By: Kristopher

Kristopher — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:07:21 +0000

Century AK semi parts sets were a bit funky … the disconnecter has an unneeded flange on the back.

Consider replacing the trigger group with a G2 set … you’ll also get rid of that annoying trigger push back.

By: nk

nk — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:04:06 +0000

Old country saying: A gun or a mule will think about killing its owner two times a day.

By: Master of Obvious

Master of Obvious — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:43:34 +0000

If your wife found out you can’t say that no one was harmed.

By: farm.dad

farm.dad — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:19:34 +0000

Over the course of some years i have learned that some slide action shotguns do not have disconectors , the disconector on 1911s does no more than it should , and that there is a reason to load any and all auto pistols via the mag rather than drop a round in the barrel and release the slide , just to mention a few lessons . You did well , dont beat yourself up but do take the lesson to heart .

By: Sebastian

Sebastian — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:13:40 +0000

Mike, I just tried that out with my Bulgarian AK-74 clone, and it did not have that behavior.

By: Mike Gallo

Mike Gallo — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:30:46 +0000

Mine was with a WASR-10 in my basement; I was cleaning it right after purchase (cosmoline), and was having trouble chambering a round (the bolt wouldn’t lock in battery). Yes, I was using live rounds, but I had the firing pin out. Well, after futzing with it for hours, cleaning the chamber the best I could and such, I reassembled the bolt, figuring I would try again later on. Well, after reassembly, I thought I’d try it one more time, and sure enough, it chambered. I reached over the top with my right hand to grab a flashlight off the bench, and my sleeve caught on the safety. Well, it turns out that if you rotate an AK-style safety to the removal position, it looses the hammer and BANG. I dug the slug out of the stairs and kept it as a reminder of why I should continue to follow the four rules.

I haven’t really done any research, but Century Int’l. has a reputation, so I’m wondering if this is the function of a FA selector switch in a SA gun?

By: straightarrow

straightarrow — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:46:22 +0000

My hands are small and have been sorely used, resulting in them being very thick and stiff. I never let the hammer down one-handed. I use both hands to do this. I have never had an ND, but that is probably as much due to having to accomodate my physical limitations as to ability.

By: the pawnbroker

the pawnbroker — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:45:12 +0000

well young ones, i’ve had three…different decades, different circumstances, and no injuries, but all negligent, and as i said here i think they all are.

http://poetnthepawnbroker.blogspot.com/2008/04/negligent-dischargesaccidental-sounds.html

i posted about the first one here, less painful to my ego i guess as i attributed it to youth and ignorance.

http://poetnthepawnbroker.blogspot.com/2008/04/negligent-discharge-number-one-1978.html

haven’t written about the other two yet…the second one is just too scary and painful to think about, and it would be out of order to post about the third before the second, but suffice to say it left a fair-sized hole in the floor behind my counter and a wide-eyed sheriff’s deputy in front of it…

jtc

By: doubletrouble

doubletrouble — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:36:49 +0000

I wear mine all day here around the homestead. When I need to clear it, I put the hammer block safety on, remove the mag, eject the chambered cartridge, re-insert the mag, then drop the hammer on the cross block (pointed, well you know).
It works, but IS a PITA.

My ND was a similar situation, except it was a 9mm, also in my basement. Lil’ crater there now, & the ears were ringing for a while…

By: Lyle

Lyle — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:28:32 +0000

Just to be clear; you weren’t following all the rules. You loaded the gun.

Talk to yourself outloud; I am now finished (dry firing, shooting, whatever) and will check the chamber and the magazine well…

The nice feature of the rules is they’re redundant. You have to violate more than one for anyone to actually get hurt.

I would like to add another rule here; Always keep a firm grip on (i.e. complete control of) the gun. Losing your grip and dropping a gun isn’t a good thing.

By: ben

ben — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:16:27 +0000

I did that too once a couple years ago. Sucks. Put a hole in my wall. 4 rules = nobody hurt (except my ears).

By: Linoge

Linoge — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:49:38 +0000

Good to hear that you and everyone else over there is ok, Uncle. I have to admit – I do very much like that the adjustable backstraps on the back of my PPS also function as a decocking system… Reduces the chances of an ND, but certainly does not remove it.

At any rate, thanks for having the nerve to share the experience.

By: nexyjo

nexyjo — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:46:20 +0000

i also own a p22 (yes, in pink) and i also don’t like the magazine disconnect safety. i don’t like to keep any gun around cocked, with or without a magazine in it. if it’s cocked, inserting a mag just seems dangerous to me. what kind of gun designer from hell thought of that “feature”?

i’m now going in search of the instructions to remove the magazine safety…

By: Kristopher

Kristopher — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:23:34 +0000

When I bought my current .22lr pistol, I ended up with a choice between a new Walther, and an old High Standard.

I bought the High Standard.

It looks like I made the right choice … all of the controls do what you expect them to do, without any back talk.

By: Regolith

Regolith — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:10:32 +0000

I’ve done that with an old lever action .22, but it
was in the field. You HAVE to manually decock those
to cary them safely, as there are no safeties on
them besides placing the hammer at the half-cock position (which helps prevent the gun from going off if dropped as well as preventing the gun from going off if the trigger is accidentally puled). I think I was around 15 at the time.

By: Sean_Galt

Sean_Galt — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:25:39 +0000

BTDT. A brand spanking new semiauto 20 gauge, partially disassembled, with live rounds STUCK in the action.
It jammed on the first shot, and was brought indoors loaded for unsticking. Boy, did the OTHER 2 guys in the shop get wide eyed- but , same as your situation, concrete backstop, muzzle away from everyone, and I knew it was a possibility. Still has some pucker factor to it though, even when you know its likely coming.
I’m so glad I don’t do warranty work. I ended up with one pellet in my drywall, and the customer left with a recommendation to send it directly back to the factory, as it fired when the action closed, sans-trigger pull. So, a gunnut for 20 plus years, and 1 ND. Hopefully the last.

By: Crucis

Crucis — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:24:14 +0000

Back when I was shooting IDPA, I used to carry an
empty mag in a shirt pocket just to let the hammer
down on my Browning Highpower. I have had more than one RO insist that I not use an empty mag but to let the hammer down without a magazine inserted. I had one
RO refuse to let my use my BHP because I didn’t have
the Magazine Disconnect removed.

(Browning Highpowers have a magazine disconnect
“safety” and you cannot let the hammer down without
a magazine inserted.)

By: mariner

mariner — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:51:45 +0000

Laughingdog:

“That’s the one thing I really don’t like about my Glock, since it forces me to pull the trigger in order to field strip it.”

Can I have it?

This is not a problem for me — I simply make sure the chamber is empty before I do it.

(Oh, and if you field-strip XDs, M&Ps or some SIGs you’ll find the same thing.)

By: drstrangegun

drstrangegun — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:47:40 +0000

Morte, slight issue with that and the P22, your thumb really won’t fit in there. The P22’s hammer is very short.

By: Ross S.

Ross S. — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:32:33 +0000

The two loudest sounds in the world: a BANG when you expected a click, and a CLICK when you expected a BANG.

By: morte

morte — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:04:31 +0000

A method to help prevent just this sort of thing that was taught to me years ago is to place the thumb of the offhand in front of the hammer, blocking access to the firing pin. If the stronghand thumb slips, the hammer has no way of hitting the firing pin. As the instructor said, “”Ow”, is better than “bang.”"

By: Robb Allen

Robb Allen — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:54:24 +0000

LaughingDog, I actually am glad the first semi handgun I purchased was a Glock. Because of having to pull the trigger to pull it apart, I’ve done exactly what you say – cycle it several times to clear out anything. I also put my pinky in the chamber to ensure I’m not being fooled by my lying eyes. I then always point at the ground and pull the trigger, just in case my fingers are in cahoots with said lying eyes.

Because of this, all my firearms go through an overly rigorous inspection each time I have to dry fire or for whatever reason. Never hurts to be overly cautious.

By: Tom

Tom — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:43:42 +0000

glad nobody was injured.

Not impressed with over-lawyered guns.

By: Gun Blobber

Gun Blobber — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:43:18 +0000

I guess this is the one big difference between the P22 and the Sig Mosquito (I have heard some claim that the internals are virtually identical, and that they are made at the same factory — no idea if it’s actually true, but I’ll grant it for the sake of argument). The Mosquito (like most Sigs) has a decocker. It is stupid that you have to decock manually (”thumb on the hammer”) on the P22, or on ANY modern, hammer-fired semi-auto for that matter (designed in 1990 or later). AFAIK, the Beretta 92 uses its safety as a decocker — the P22 doesn’t do that?

As far as loaded magazines in the house, I keep loaded mags around for things that I might need for defensive purposes. A couple for the Sig P226, and a couple for the AK’s…. the .22’s are stored with empty mags, because I only ever shoot them at the range and can’t anticipate a need for them in an emergency.

By: sevesteen

sevesteen — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:37:50 +0000

I’ve got rituals that go beyond the 4 rules. Most of my semiautos require a trigger pull to disassemble. If I am pulling the trigger for disassembly, I put all compatible ammo in a different room.

If I had known the reassembly procedure for the Ruger 22/45, I probably would have bought something else. Requires that you pull the trigger, with a mag inserted, with the gun pointed in various directions. I don’t clean it near as much as I would otherwise.

By: pax

pax — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:28:05 +0000

That’s exactly the way an ND should occur, when it occurs: no risk to anyone else because you were following the rules. I’d even go so far as to say it was an unintentional discharge, not a negligent one, because you were consciously following the rules and treating the gun as if loaded. Bummer about the painful ears & the hole in the floor.

Next time, before you decock, put the safety on that P22. It’ll prevent the discharge even if your finger slips, and yes – you’ll still be able to manipulate the trigger and lower the hammer with the safety on.

By: Rob

Rob — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:13:08 +0000

Same thing happened with a friend of mine in my kitchen with his .45. Fortunately, his pistol was pointed in a safe direction when his thumb slipped off the hammer. Destroyed my sink and pissed off my wife. But she got a nice, new sink and fixture out of it in the end, courtesy of my friend.

By: Justin Buist

Justin Buist — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:11:30 +0000

For what it’s worth I’ve found that holding my P22 upside down while pulling the trigger allows the hammer to drop w/out a magazine inserted.

I tend to do this instead of inserting a magazine, because, well, see above.