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	<title>Comments on: How far?</title>
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	<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/</link>
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		<title>By: Phelps</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208186</link>
		<dc:creator>Phelps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208186</guid>
		<description>On anything that you are likely to own, 15 and 25 are both flat.  Zero it for that.  If you need more distance, you need more gun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On anything that you are likely to own, 15 and 25 are both flat.  Zero it for that.  If you need more distance, you need more gun.</p>
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		<title>By: Tam</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208160</link>
		<dc:creator>Tam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208160</guid>
		<description>Greg,

&lt;blockquote&gt;If it is that Gun Blog 45, get some new non-adjustable rear sights that aren’t such sharp bastards.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No can do. Those are BoMar lo-mount knockoffs and the slide is machined to fit. As the joke goes: &quot;&lt;i&gt;Once you go Bo-Mar, you&#039;ll never go back. At least not without a lot of welding and filing and refinishing.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

If one wishes to use it for CCW duties, knocking the sharp edges off the rear sight blade with a fine stone and touching up the results with Aluma-Black should do the trick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg,</p>
<blockquote><p>If it is that Gun Blog 45, get some new non-adjustable rear sights that aren’t such sharp bastards.</p></blockquote>
<p>No can do. Those are BoMar lo-mount knockoffs and the slide is machined to fit. As the joke goes: &#8220;<i>Once you go Bo-Mar, you&#8217;ll never go back. At least not without a lot of welding and filing and refinishing.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>If one wishes to use it for CCW duties, knocking the sharp edges off the rear sight blade with a fine stone and touching up the results with Aluma-Black should do the trick.</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208155</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208155</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Homer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Homer.</p>
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		<title>By: _Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208154</link>
		<dc:creator>_Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208154</guid>
		<description>I love this blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this blog!</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208147</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 11:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208147</guid>
		<description>If it is that Gun Blog 45, get some new non-adjustable rear sights that aren&#039;t such sharp bastards.  Those suckers hurt, and I can&#039;t imagine they&#039;d be comfortable/snag-free for carry.  I can&#039;t imagine needing adjustable sights on a carry gun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it is that Gun Blog 45, get some new non-adjustable rear sights that aren&#8217;t such sharp bastards.  Those suckers hurt, and I can&#8217;t imagine they&#8217;d be comfortable/snag-free for carry.  I can&#8217;t imagine needing adjustable sights on a carry gun.</p>
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		<title>By: Homer</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208145</link>
		<dc:creator>Homer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208145</guid>
		<description>Well, you asked.....a 185 grain .451&quot; bullet with a ballistic coefficient of .110 and with a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps, which is pretty close to Cor-Bon ammo, has a point blank range zero of 86 yards assuming a target diameter of 6&quot; with a maximum point blank range of 103 yards. 

OK, then.

FWIW, my carry guns are zeroed at 20 yards based on: 25-30 yards is probably the longest handgun defensive shot I&#039;d ever have to make and a 20 yard zero keeps 45 ACP point of impact within 1&quot; of that at 30. Closer than 20 and POI isn&#039;t significantly different from that at 20.

Here&#039;s something to try: if your range configuration permits it, zero at your chosen distance, then, with the same sight picture,  fire groups both moving in 5 yards at a time and moving out 5 yards at a time. Moving in you won&#039;t see much difference. What you&#039;ll see moving out is both drop and lateral dispersal, and at some point it&#039;ll become a pattern rather than a group. With my students I use 8.5&quot; X 11&quot; copy paper on a larger cardboard backer, and when (about) 10% of the shots are off the paper that&#039;s 10 yards past their maximum effective range, so zero for half that. Totally arbitrary, but it seems to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you asked&#8230;..a 185 grain .451&#8243; bullet with a ballistic coefficient of .110 and with a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps, which is pretty close to Cor-Bon ammo, has a point blank range zero of 86 yards assuming a target diameter of 6&#8243; with a maximum point blank range of 103 yards. </p>
<p>OK, then.</p>
<p>FWIW, my carry guns are zeroed at 20 yards based on: 25-30 yards is probably the longest handgun defensive shot I&#8217;d ever have to make and a 20 yard zero keeps 45 ACP point of impact within 1&#8243; of that at 30. Closer than 20 and POI isn&#8217;t significantly different from that at 20.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s something to try: if your range configuration permits it, zero at your chosen distance, then, with the same sight picture,  fire groups both moving in 5 yards at a time and moving out 5 yards at a time. Moving in you won&#8217;t see much difference. What you&#8217;ll see moving out is both drop and lateral dispersal, and at some point it&#8217;ll become a pattern rather than a group. With my students I use 8.5&#8243; X 11&#8243; copy paper on a larger cardboard backer, and when (about) 10% of the shots are off the paper that&#8217;s 10 yards past their maximum effective range, so zero for half that. Totally arbitrary, but it seems to work.</p>
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		<title>By: Moriarty</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208137</link>
		<dc:creator>Moriarty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 03:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208137</guid>
		<description>&quot;Masaad Ayub(sp?) usually shows a jury that 21 feet is a minimum distance to allow a potential threat to encroach into your “defensive” space.&quot;

Ummm.  No.

You&#039;re referring to the &quot;Tueller Drill&quot; as popularized by Cooper, Ayoob and others. It shows that most attackers armed with an impact weapon can cover 21 feet in about 1.5 seconds.

When used as a defense, the Tueller Drill illustrates that the interval available to recognize a threat, draw, fire and incapacitate may be very brief.  A second-and-a-half may easily be &quot;inside&quot; the response time of a defender, depending on circumstance (e.g., drawing from under a coat or inside a handbag.)      

There is no &quot;magic number&quot; that defines your danger zone.  That&#039;s the point of the Drill. 

Most 1911 shooters I know sight in at either 15 or 25 and call it square.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Masaad Ayub(sp?) usually shows a jury that 21 feet is a minimum distance to allow a potential threat to encroach into your “defensive” space.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ummm.  No.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re referring to the &#8220;Tueller Drill&#8221; as popularized by Cooper, Ayoob and others. It shows that most attackers armed with an impact weapon can cover 21 feet in about 1.5 seconds.</p>
<p>When used as a defense, the Tueller Drill illustrates that the interval available to recognize a threat, draw, fire and incapacitate may be very brief.  A second-and-a-half may easily be &#8220;inside&#8221; the response time of a defender, depending on circumstance (e.g., drawing from under a coat or inside a handbag.)      </p>
<p>There is no &#8220;magic number&#8221; that defines your danger zone.  That&#8217;s the point of the Drill. </p>
<p>Most 1911 shooters I know sight in at either 15 or 25 and call it square.</p>
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		<title>By: oldblinddog</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208130</link>
		<dc:creator>oldblinddog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 02:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208130</guid>
		<description>If it is for concealed carry, are the adjustable sights snag free? If you already have a 1911 with snag free combat sights then I would carry it instead and use the adjustable sighted gun for other purposes which might require adjustable sights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it is for concealed carry, are the adjustable sights snag free? If you already have a 1911 with snag free combat sights then I would carry it instead and use the adjustable sighted gun for other purposes which might require adjustable sights.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Strangegun</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208127</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Strangegun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 02:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208127</guid>
		<description>emfdl, 

Fine advice for a primarily defensive gun. I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the intent here, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>emfdl, </p>
<p>Fine advice for a primarily defensive gun. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the intent here, though.</p>
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		<title>By: emdfl</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208123</link>
		<dc:creator>emdfl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 01:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208123</guid>
		<description>You may have a tough time convincing the DA - not to mention a jury that you &quot;were in fear for your life &quot; if you shoot the goblin at 15 yards(45 feet).  
Masaad Ayub(sp?) usually shows a jury that 21 feet is a minimum  distance to allow a potential threat to encroach into your &quot;defensive&quot; space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may have a tough time convincing the DA &#8211; not to mention a jury that you &#8220;were in fear for your life &#8221; if you shoot the goblin at 15 yards(45 feet).<br />
Masaad Ayub(sp?) usually shows a jury that 21 feet is a minimum  distance to allow a potential threat to encroach into your &#8220;defensive&#8221; space.</p>
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		<title>By: Ninth Stage</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208120</link>
		<dc:creator>Ninth Stage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 23:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208120</guid>
		<description>Dr has the right idea.

The problem is, with a .45 ACP, to get an inch over and an inch under out to 50 yards, you&#039;d have to sight it in at some odd distance - maybe 40 or 45 yards (just guessing).  In that case, why not go all the way to 50?  And if you go all the way out to 50, you&#039;re now an 1inch and a half high at 25 yards, out of the upper &quot;A&quot; zone.

If you&#039;re going to carry it and maybe compete with it sight it in for 15 yards and you&#039;ll be right on at 25 yards too.

I expect that with the laser, you want to see magic holes appear on the dot.  Sight the laser for your laser practice distance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr has the right idea.</p>
<p>The problem is, with a .45 ACP, to get an inch over and an inch under out to 50 yards, you&#8217;d have to sight it in at some odd distance &#8211; maybe 40 or 45 yards (just guessing).  In that case, why not go all the way to 50?  And if you go all the way out to 50, you&#8217;re now an 1inch and a half high at 25 yards, out of the upper &#8220;A&#8221; zone.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re going to carry it and maybe compete with it sight it in for 15 yards and you&#8217;ll be right on at 25 yards too.</p>
<p>I expect that with the laser, you want to see magic holes appear on the dot.  Sight the laser for your laser practice distance.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Strangegun</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208119</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Strangegun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 23:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208119</guid>
		<description>It depends on the ballistic arc of the cartridge you&#039;d be using. Personally, I could see zeroing at a distance that&#039;d give an &quot;equalized&quot;, or I suppose minimized, variance at the common shooting distances. That way you&#039;d pretty much universally hit the target, only a inch or so high or low, with a dead-on hold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It depends on the ballistic arc of the cartridge you&#8217;d be using. Personally, I could see zeroing at a distance that&#8217;d give an &#8220;equalized&#8221;, or I suppose minimized, variance at the common shooting distances. That way you&#8217;d pretty much universally hit the target, only a inch or so high or low, with a dead-on hold.</p>
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		<title>By: Rustmeister</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208118</link>
		<dc:creator>Rustmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208118</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I&#039;d sight it in close for a carry gun, further out for a competition/target gun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I&#8217;d sight it in close for a carry gun, further out for a competition/target gun.</p>
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		<title>By: Ninth Stage</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208117</link>
		<dc:creator>Ninth Stage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208117</guid>
		<description>15 yards is basically the same as 25 yards with iron sights on a handgun.  Set the laser at the range you want to train with it at, 15 yards will keep you real close out to 25 yards again.

With a 25 yard zero, for your sights, your hits will be a couple inches low at 50 and 1-1/2 to 2 feet low at 100 yards.

(we are talking about the Gun Blogger 45, right?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>15 yards is basically the same as 25 yards with iron sights on a handgun.  Set the laser at the range you want to train with it at, 15 yards will keep you real close out to 25 yards again.</p>
<p>With a 25 yard zero, for your sights, your hits will be a couple inches low at 50 and 1-1/2 to 2 feet low at 100 yards.</p>
<p>(we are talking about the Gun Blogger 45, right?)</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208116</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208116</guid>
		<description>obd, it&#039;s a 1911 for concealed carry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>obd, it&#8217;s a 1911 for concealed carry.</p>
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		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208115</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208115</guid>
		<description>P.P.S.  Seriously, unless you&#039;re a later-day Elmer Keith, knocking down elk at 300 yards with your hot .44s out of a 4-inch barrel, fifteen yards or point blank is good enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.P.S.  Seriously, unless you&#8217;re a later-day Elmer Keith, knocking down elk at 300 yards with your hot .44s out of a 4-inch barrel, fifteen yards or point blank is good enough.</p>
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		<title>By: oldblinddog</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208114</link>
		<dc:creator>oldblinddog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208114</guid>
		<description>What kind of gun is it? I mean, is it a Smith .44 mag that you might hunt deer with? Or, is it an auto that you are going to shoot bullseye with? The use will determine the distance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What kind of gun is it? I mean, is it a Smith .44 mag that you might hunt deer with? Or, is it an auto that you are going to shoot bullseye with? The use will determine the distance.</p>
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		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208113</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208113</guid>
		<description>P.S.  Or you could just do like Colonel Colt did.  Sight them in at fifty yards and aim for their belt buckle. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  Or you could just do like Colonel Colt did.  Sight them in at fifty yards and aim for their belt buckle. <img src='http://www.saysuncle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/10/05/how-far/comment-page-1/#comment-208112</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=18808#comment-208112</guid>
		<description>What your fixed-sight guns are sighted in at.  Or the one of them you&#039;re most comfortable with.  No clue about the laser.  Without knowing what I&#039;m talking about, how much drop do you expect at a distance where you can still see the dot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What your fixed-sight guns are sighted in at.  Or the one of them you&#8217;re most comfortable with.  No clue about the laser.  Without knowing what I&#8217;m talking about, how much drop do you expect at a distance where you can still see the dot?</p>
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