Here’s a better idea, Sulaco: How about, for one whole month, every police officer is subject to the same laws the “civilians” are, and face the same treatment when caught and the same penalties when punished.

(of course, that means that y’all will have to give up your “Don’t pull me over, I’m a cop/cop’s family and above the law” Thin Blue Line car stickers…)

Fair? I’d think so.

Surgeons and ER docs face far more on-the-job pressure than cops do, and THEY’RE held liable for their mistakes and misdeeds; I’ve never heard a doctor claim that a jury “just didn’t know what it was like” to do their job.

Feelings aside, you know, there is right and there is wrong, and I hope I’ll have the gumption to do the former.

Straightarrow: Please read the timeline from the report on Virginia Tech. It’s available here. Specifically, look at page 7 of the PDF that link takes you to.

“9:45 a.m. The first police officers arrive at Norris Hall, [...] rush to one entrance, then another, and then a third but find all three chained shut. Attempts to shoot open the locks fail.” (emphasis added)

and on page 8:

“9:50 a.m. Using a shotgun, police shoot open the ordinary key lock of a fourth entrance to Norris Hall that goes to a machine shop and that could not be chained. The police hear gunshots as they enter the building. They immediately follow the sounds to the second floor.”

The news cameras didn’t get there until 10-15 minutes into the incident. That’s when all the footage of officers outside was filmed. Yes, they were securing the perimeter… BECAUSE OTHER OFFICERS WERE ALREADY INSIDE!

I don’t know if you’re familiar with Norris Hall, but 5 minutes is about the right amount of time to run around the building to try the main entrances, and then figure out where else you might be able to get inside. The ground floor windows are not an option. They have metal panes, and the windows themselves are very narrow. I doubt a full grown man in a ballistic vest and a gunbelt could squeeze through easily, if at all, and it would be stupid to try when you don’t know if the gunman could come into that room while you’re halfway through.

I’m sorry if I come off as ranting here, but I’ve seen this same sentiment in several blog comments over the last few weeks, and I can’t let it go unanswered anymore. It pisses me off, because it ascribes cowardice where none exists, because it’s WRONG, because it’s based on MSM misinformation, and because the facts can be easily checked by anyone interested.

Why? Because in the Hollywood version the cop is usually the good guy, with morals, conscience and dedication to the law. Something we do not think carries into reality. That’s a shame. I won’t speak for anybody but me, but I can remember when there was no bigger supporter law enforcement personnel than myself. I didn’t change. Someone did!

And ever since 9/11 the pendulum has swung the other way, until every other movie and four out of five television shows are about some branch of patriotic law enforcers gettin’ the bad guys. From “COPS” to the bazillion “Law and Order” spinoffs to the Navy to Animal Control, you name a group of government officials that carries guns, and there will be a liberal Hollywood scumbag behind them carrying their water and pitching their story.

And why does this crap sell? Because as Jeffrey Snyder observed, most people today are utter intellectual and physical cowards. They quake and cower, begging SOMEONE ELSE to protect them. From the horrible drug dealers, from terrorists, from the acid rain, from the ozone layer. They’re dead sheep walking, and they don’t know or care.

But the endless stream of Hollywood commies? You can bet they care. Because they know what will make people open their wallets.

I’ve met enough pigs in my life that I dont need Hollywood to “invent” stories of cops who abuse their position and the people they are supposed to help.

Promises, promises.

I’d take my chances with the bad guys every fuckin’ day of that month, pal. They’re not lying to me like the cops are.

What frightens me, is that we seem to be developing our very own police army, right here at home.

P.s. No aspersions against the Argy Air Force, who covered themselves with glory pressing their attacks so close their bombs didn’t have time to arm their fuzes.

s/cops/troops/g

Hint: They had more to do with being a good neighbor than with being a bully.

I dunno if you’ve read much in the Bible, neither have I, but one of the parts I did read, and which stuck in my mind, was the Parable of the Samaritan, the burden of which was, everybody is your neighbor, and should be treated charitably.

Also, I want to point out that we gunnies use an argument with regard to handgun carry laws – ‘It isn’t important that everyone carry because if only a few do, it will deter criminals because they don’t know which people are carrying.’ Similarly, we still need a good, effective police force because they deter criminal activity just by their very presence. Even if they are not there to prevent most crimes that do occur.

There is a bit of cop-bashing here and elsewhere. But most of it stems from people who have been granted special powers and have abused that position of power. If state employees in California didn’t have to pay tolls it would be an outrage. If judges broke the separation of church and state, it would be an outrage. If mayors lied under oath, it would be an outrage. If governors hired hookers, it would be an outrage.

See that pattern?

The last line of her article, there, is “Teach your sons and daughters to fear the police.”

I concur.

Normal decent cops leave people alone who don’t break laws.

Bad cops are more like schoolyard bullies, and pick on isolated victims who seem small and weak, or out alone after midnight, or just asserting their rights, because that’s safer than doing their actual job.

Anecdata: The times I met cops and we both knew I was in the wrong, the cops were right nice; the times when we both knew I was in the right, the cops were rude bullying assholes.

That seems backwards, somehow, or maybe it’s professional courtesy to fellow criminals?

“(police) come to your aid when the normal, average folk won’t”.

except at columbine, where – even though they got there in time to help – the cops hid like little girls while the teenagers continued on their killing rampage. IIRC, they didn’t muster up the nuts to enter the building until long after the bad guys killed themselves.

it was a *tactical* decision, you see, because every cop knows dead cops can’t cash their pension checks. better to let it all sort itself out rather than take a chance. like when they bravely shoot the friendly dog when storming the mayor’s house. or when they gun down the little old lady, then plant drugs on her corpse to cover their stupid asses.

yeah, *balko’s* the problem here. not cops.

Too bad there are so few peace officers left.

As far as how dangerous it is, bullshit. I worked my entire life in careers far more dangerous that law enforcement and we had the fatalities to prove it. LE isn’t even in the same insurance GROUP.

I do take exception to the list of the ten most dangerous, though. I don’t believe the commenter initiated the fault, but one group who definitely belongs in the top 10 is underground miners. And no, I wasn’t one of them. Their job, at least 20 years ago was by far the most dangerous, even worse than firefighters, who also have a far more dangerous job than LE.

Now I know you didn’t miss the instance I mentioned, not if you turned on your tv in the last two days. The video is all over it. Happened in Palm Beach, Fl. Check it out and tell me again what sterling characters they are, and all those cops who never reported it or tried to stop it.

As I said, these guys are criminals. The uniform doesn’t change that. If you think it does,it bespeaks ill of you.

This blog has an anti cop reputation within Law Enforcement generally

And instead of asking me about it, they just decide to show up at my house over it.

This blog has an anti cop reputation within Law Enforcement generally (for those I have asked and know it at all) and I place the above posts, (most of them) as evidence.

I’m calling total bullshit now. Blogs in general are unknown the LEOs generally, much less any particular blog.

Believing critics of abusive cops are hate-filled seems to be an article of faith with you, but I’ve yet to see you back that up or refute anything anyone else has said.

As for this blog’s anti-cop reputation; seriously? You’ve asked around the law enforcement community and some of them know a mid-ranked, pro-gun blog as being anti-cop? And you post this insight below an entry which links approvingly to a pro-cop post on a pro-cop blog? The comments you’re so proudly “placing in evidence” were a reaction to that.

“However, in some cities there is a thriving culture of corruption and, though it’s the minority, gives the police a bad name.”

Tell me, what part of that is anti-cop? Or what does it say about you that holding police officers to a high standard of integrity is somehow disrespectful or out of bounds? We’re supposed to take it and like it to avoid any implied criticism of our employees who do what (you say) we dare not?

And again, law enforcement, while more dangerous than accounting, is not in the top ten most dangerous occupations in America. I’ll take the “respect the job” argument more seriously when I see cops giving lumberjacks their due respect.

In general, I like police officers. I remember a master sgt. that was a police officer. Completely told me straight how his department worked, including the quota. Nice guy, knew when common sense prevailed over getting that extra buck. No pretensions that is commonly portrayed in the media, like gung-ho officers on sees on movies. If more cops were like that man, there would be a lot less ill feelings towards law enforcement, to be sure.

But I stopped giving to the fraternal order of police when my brother got pulled over and was repeatedly insulted and threatened with harassment because he had audacity to drive ‘like grandma’ ala the speed limit. Army vet? FU, I am undercover.

Or when my family was threatened by a gang, with a bunch of those monsters yelling to us that they will come back to kill us later. It was not the police who protected my family, but a neighbor’s shotgun.

Thank goodness for the internet, allowing common citizens such as myself and the others to air our their problems with the police without retaliation. But I will be reading that pro-cop blog and hope to regain my sense of trust in the boys in blue.

This blog has an anti cop reputation within Law Enforcement generally (for those I have asked and know it at all) and I place the above posts, (most of them) as evidence. I have seen nothing to change anyone’s mind.

Of course you couldn’t consider there might be a valid reason for the disparity of posts pro and con?

As for dialing 9/11 why. It wouldn’t be the perimeter the caller would need secured. You know, those places behind trees, brick walls, etc. Just a thought.

Anybody see the videotaped beating of a handcuffed suspect on the news last night? None of the cops reported it, at least three of them took turns kicking him in head after he was unconscious. None of the cops reported it. NONE OF THE COPS REPORTED IT!

How clear do you need it. Was it not for the videotape guess what?

Police are special, try calling a random name in the phone book the next time you would have called 911.

I get a better ROF if I keep both hands on the weapon instead of trying to juggle the phone. I have absolutely no expectation that the cops can help me in any situation that I would want to call 911 in. I generally call them simply because it would be more trouble for me in the end if I didn’t give them a heads-up.

I used to try the “I’m highlighting the bad ones without being anti-cop” thing. Then I realized that every.. single… time… the “good” cops rallied around the bad cops. I couldn’t figure out how good cops could do that. Then I realized that they can’t.

But Balko needs to have the holy shit beaten out of him seven days a week for a good ten years.

They come to your aid when the normal, average folk won’t and they deal with those who’d do harm to others. Does it make them super-human and above the law? In some senses, yes (like driving 100mph to get to a crime scene or tracking down a fleeing felon). Their jobs require them to be able and willing to do what others won’t or can’t (which can be applied to other occupations, no doubt). I despise corruption in PDs as it gives the vast majority of officers a bad rep, much like those few assholes at the gun counter give all gun counter jockeys a bad name.

Cops, to do their jobs, need a certain level of protection from prosecution, for instance, when arresting a drug dealer, they take possession of the drugs, yet you or I could not without being arrested. I’m not saying they alone should be allowed to have guns, heavens no, but they do need certain protections. This shouldn’t absolve them from outright criminal activity, like taking said drugs home with them.

As for coming off as anti-cop, well when the number of critical posts outnumber by a great margin the posts praising them (I’ve no clue as to Unc’s ratio), you’ll have a tough sell keeping your pro-cop credibility, much like the MSM doesn’t have a leg to stand on when we call the Liberal.

I’ll fuckin’ believe that when I see it.

I remember America. It was a place where one could respect cops.

Those days are gone. Fuggetaboudit. No respectable person would want the job now.

I also would like to see a broader commitment among the LEO’s to making the bad ones even more rare, but the problem there seems to be coming from above (the political ranks).

As Radley Balko asked, how many bad apples do we have to find before we start wondering if there’s something seriously wrong going on inside the barrel?

And if I mention the teen who fell 30 feet off a bridge, breaking his back, who was then tasered 19 times for “refusing to comply with officers … and … making incoherent statements,” do you call that whining or is it a legitimate topic of discussion?

Ok, but how is that different from any other gang?

For years police have set themselves above other citizens, and demanded we non-privileged citizens view them as special and more-entitled than ourselves.

Now we do. And we don’t like it a bit.

I’ve met many more good cops than bad. I’ve had state troopers stop to see why I was stalled partly in a traffic lane who pushed me out of the way, asked if I had called a tow truck, and went on their way. I’ve been issued warnings on little technical issues that could, barely, have been tickets. I know a police officer in a management position who I’m impressed with, and I like my local sheriff.

But. If you’ve never noticed police officers saying “our guy couldn’t have done that, he’s a police officer,” responding to allegations of corruption or brutality or needless tazering or trigger-happy shooting by saying “support your police” then you haven’t been paying attention. F*^# em. Seriously. The standard their spokesmen and apogists have set out and stood by is that their members always acted properly, that the multiple tazering was always justified, the shooting was always justified, the theft or bribe was a terrible mistake and the officer has been punished enough.

If that’s what they want then fine, but that’s absolutely all they get from me. I’m polite and cooperative with individual officers. More in self-protection than real respect. I have no respect left for the police as an institution. I reserve judgement on individuals and departments until I come to know them. And again, most that I know I respect. But the militarization of the police combined with thin-blue-line protecting of their own has not been good for this country, and I don’t see how more respect for the police ala NRAhab helps any.

ETA: as positive as can be when getting a ticket. I mean, it’s not like I enjoyed it.

So, yeah, cops sometimes do their job without being complete assholes. But it’s rare.

A good cop is a huge asset to a city, but they’re pretty rare. A bad cop is is dangerous because of all the special protections, accomodations and double-standards legally. Making the problem worse, there is a gang-mentality. They complain about he “stop-snitching” culture? Theirs is the most institutionalized stop-snitching culture in the country.

Compounding our problem is the militarization. Here in Texas you’ll find decent cops out in the country, but in Houston HPD is more of an occupying army.

Over all when comparing our forces to some in the world we have a fairly good level of police men and women.

At least that is my humble opinion.

But I like that idea – show the good and bad at the same time.