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	<title>Comments on: More on the church shooting</title>
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	<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/</link>
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		<title>By: straightarrow</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-204153</link>
		<dc:creator>straightarrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-204153</guid>
		<description>ergo the difference between murder and killing. One is sometimes both, but not always.

All murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ergo the difference between murder and killing. One is sometimes both, but not always.</p>
<p>All murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders.</p>
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		<title>By: Zendo Deb</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-204058</link>
		<dc:creator>Zendo Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Now Straight Arrow, if you want to start picking apart the appalling translation of Hebrew (or Greek) into English, you could be here all night, and probably offend a lot of Christians.  (And no, this isn&#039;t what I started to say - isn&#039;t that  PC of me?)

In the book immediately following &quot;Thou Shalt not kill&quot; there is all kinds of reference to &quot;their blood shall be upon them.&quot;  Not to mention all the infractions that are supposed to result in being stoned.  Or the injunctions to put various people to the sword.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now Straight Arrow, if you want to start picking apart the appalling translation of Hebrew (or Greek) into English, you could be here all night, and probably offend a lot of Christians.  (And no, this isn&#8217;t what I started to say &#8211; isn&#8217;t that  PC of me?)</p>
<p>In the book immediately following &#8220;Thou Shalt not kill&#8221; there is all kinds of reference to &#8220;their blood shall be upon them.&#8221;  Not to mention all the infractions that are supposed to result in being stoned.  Or the injunctions to put various people to the sword.</p>
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		<title>By: straightarrow</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-204004</link>
		<dc:creator>straightarrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-204004</guid>
		<description>&quot;But I think the Bible is pretty clear on that whole shall not kill thing.&quot;_uncle

A small nit to pick, but important.  The original commandment was &quot;Thou shalt not murder&quot;.  Murder being unjustified killing.  It was never intended to be used as it now is, as justification for not defending life.

That didn&#039;t happen in this case, but it has been used by the other side as justification for making helpless the citizenry.

Having said that, Uncle&#039;s real point is well taken, and unassailable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But I think the Bible is pretty clear on that whole shall not kill thing.&#8221;_uncle</p>
<p>A small nit to pick, but important.  The original commandment was &#8220;Thou shalt not murder&#8221;.  Murder being unjustified killing.  It was never intended to be used as it now is, as justification for not defending life.</p>
<p>That didn&#8217;t happen in this case, but it has been used by the other side as justification for making helpless the citizenry.</p>
<p>Having said that, Uncle&#8217;s real point is well taken, and unassailable.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203970</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203970</guid>
		<description>The media of course will be looking for something that fits their narrative, so they&#039;ll be hoping they can term him a Christian conservative gun-nut NRA member, hunter, anti-communist, greedy racist, sexist, bigoted homophobe flag waiver who wants to dirty the air, torture jihadists, tap your phone lines, start wars to enrich the corporations, deny health care to seniors and starve children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The media of course will be looking for something that fits their narrative, so they&#8217;ll be hoping they can term him a Christian conservative gun-nut NRA member, hunter, anti-communist, greedy racist, sexist, bigoted homophobe flag waiver who wants to dirty the air, torture jihadists, tap your phone lines, start wars to enrich the corporations, deny health care to seniors and starve children.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203968</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203968</guid>
		<description>I generally don&#039;t care why a crazy fuck is a crazy fuck, and I couldn&#039;t care less what a crazy fuck has to say.  Just as likely he&#039;ll say he had to kill people because the spores in the air around his head were ordering him to do it, or something equally enlightening.  The others involved need only be concerned with position, grip, sight picture...

I&#039;d far rather study why a sucessful and well-adjusted person is sucessful and well-adjusted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I generally don&#8217;t care why a crazy fuck is a crazy fuck, and I couldn&#8217;t care less what a crazy fuck has to say.  Just as likely he&#8217;ll say he had to kill people because the spores in the air around his head were ordering him to do it, or something equally enlightening.  The others involved need only be concerned with position, grip, sight picture&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d far rather study why a sucessful and well-adjusted person is sucessful and well-adjusted.</p>
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		<title>By: Linoge</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203951</link>
		<dc:creator>Linoge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203951</guid>
		<description>Very good to hear that the people of the church were able to react that quickly - True heroes, all of them.  That</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good to hear that the people of the church were able to react that quickly &#8211; True heroes, all of them.  That</p>
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		<title>By: Nomen Nescio</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203932</link>
		<dc:creator>Nomen Nescio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203932</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/07/gunman_opens_fire_in_humanist.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;update:&lt;/a&gt; seems he wasn&#039;t so much anti-religious as just plain fucked up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/07/gunman_opens_fire_in_humanist.php" rel="nofollow">update:</a> seems he wasn&#8217;t so much anti-religious as just plain fucked up.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203928</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203928</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It is surprising that he has so little concept [of] the beliefs of people he was trying to kill because of their beliefs. &lt;/i&gt;

This is usually the case with anti-religious people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It is surprising that he has so little concept [of] the beliefs of people he was trying to kill because of their beliefs. </i></p>
<p>This is usually the case with anti-religious people.</p>
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		<title>By: Zendo Deb</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203899</link>
		<dc:creator>Zendo Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203899</guid>
		<description>Roberta, I have to second your &quot;the shooter is a moron&quot; sentiment.

One of the things Pagans did through most of the 90s was find a bit of cover in association with certain UU congregations via CUUPS.  I thought the UU association has since thrown them overboard, but a quick Google search shows that I may be wrong on that.  How many Christian churches would do that? (How many Christians are appalled by the notion?)

It was one of the many things Wiccans and Pagans did to get the tax advantages for their congregations, and also to try to influence the Veterans Administration.  (&lt;a href=&quot;http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2006/07/government-some-religions-are-still.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The VA had steadfastly refused to allow Wiccan or Pagan markers on grave sites.  Until they lost law suit on First Amendment grounds, they just plain refused to recognize Wiccans who died in service to the country&lt;/a&gt;.)  Of course the DoD had to lose a similar law suit before Wiccans serving in the military could freely exercise their religion while serving.  The simple act of getting tax advantages for a Wiccan congregation has also taken a law suit in the past.  (Religious freedom but only for state-approved religions.)

And yes, a lot of people did assume that he was &quot;someone&quot; going after the non-Christian, gay-friendly Unitarian/Universalists.  It would not have been surprising if he was.  It is surprising that he has so little concept the beliefs of people he was trying to kill because of their beliefs.  &quot;Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roberta, I have to second your &#8220;the shooter is a moron&#8221; sentiment.</p>
<p>One of the things Pagans did through most of the 90s was find a bit of cover in association with certain UU congregations via CUUPS.  I thought the UU association has since thrown them overboard, but a quick Google search shows that I may be wrong on that.  How many Christian churches would do that? (How many Christians are appalled by the notion?)</p>
<p>It was one of the many things Wiccans and Pagans did to get the tax advantages for their congregations, and also to try to influence the Veterans Administration.  (<a href="http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2006/07/government-some-religions-are-still.html" rel="nofollow">The VA had steadfastly refused to allow Wiccan or Pagan markers on grave sites.  Until they lost law suit on First Amendment grounds, they just plain refused to recognize Wiccans who died in service to the country</a>.)  Of course the DoD had to lose a similar law suit before Wiccans serving in the military could freely exercise their religion while serving.  The simple act of getting tax advantages for a Wiccan congregation has also taken a law suit in the past.  (Religious freedom but only for state-approved religions.)</p>
<p>And yes, a lot of people did assume that he was &#8220;someone&#8221; going after the non-Christian, gay-friendly Unitarian/Universalists.  It would not have been surprising if he was.  It is surprising that he has so little concept the beliefs of people he was trying to kill because of their beliefs.  &#8220;Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Homer</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203885</link>
		<dc:creator>Homer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, the proclamation establishes that they don&#039;t like guns, and that they believe the power of government should be used to regulate and discourage ownership of guns, but I don&#039;t see anything in it that says &quot;thou shall not possess any&quot; nor do I see anything that says &quot;you can&#039;t have one here.&quot; 

Does TN law prohibit carry in churches?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the proclamation establishes that they don&#8217;t like guns, and that they believe the power of government should be used to regulate and discourage ownership of guns, but I don&#8217;t see anything in it that says &#8220;thou shall not possess any&#8221; nor do I see anything that says &#8220;you can&#8217;t have one here.&#8221; </p>
<p>Does TN law prohibit carry in churches?</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203884</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203884</guid>
		<description>Seems to me like the national press (who didn&#039;t bother talking to his neighbors) wrote the stories in a way like they were hoping this guy was some wild eyed Christian fundamentalist who wanted to teach the heathens at the Unitarian Church a lesson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me like the national press (who didn&#8217;t bother talking to his neighbors) wrote the stories in a way like they were hoping this guy was some wild eyed Christian fundamentalist who wanted to teach the heathens at the Unitarian Church a lesson.</p>
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		<title>By: Roberta X</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203876</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberta X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203876</guid>
		<description>Rats,  horrid proofreading.  Again.  Sorry, no time to fix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rats,  horrid proofreading.  Again.  Sorry, no time to fix.</p>
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		<title>By: Roberta X</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203875</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberta X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203875</guid>
		<description>Umm, speaking as a former UU, it is not, a Christian church.  Both the UUs and the Criatian churches are clear about this.

     Even if we go way back to when ties were closer and the two faiths hadn&#039;t merged, Unitarians didn&#039;t believe in the Trinity and the Universalists belived in (essentially) the universal redemption of souls, both of &#039;em deal-breakers tp most other Christians.  Fast-forward a few hundred years and the ties between UU and traditional Christiaity are even looser.  

     I&#039;m okay with that.  But it means the shooter was a moron in addition to being evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm, speaking as a former UU, it is not, a Christian church.  Both the UUs and the Criatian churches are clear about this.</p>
<p>     Even if we go way back to when ties were closer and the two faiths hadn&#8217;t merged, Unitarians didn&#8217;t believe in the Trinity and the Universalists belived in (essentially) the universal redemption of souls, both of &#8216;em deal-breakers tp most other Christians.  Fast-forward a few hundred years and the ties between UU and traditional Christiaity are even looser.  </p>
<p>     I&#8217;m okay with that.  But it means the shooter was a moron in addition to being evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Nomen Nescio</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/28/more-on-the-church-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-203872</link>
		<dc:creator>Nomen Nescio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16805#comment-203872</guid>
		<description>i don&#039;t like churches or religion either, but i&#039;m clever enough to figure out that this is one problem you can&#039;t shoot fixed. i suspect this goblin was the type who would&#039;ve found something or other to take eventually fatal offense at; religion just happened to be it. if it hadn&#039;t been, i think likely he&#039;d&#039;ve settled on something else instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t like churches or religion either, but i&#8217;m clever enough to figure out that this is one problem you can&#8217;t shoot fixed. i suspect this goblin was the type who would&#8217;ve found something or other to take eventually fatal offense at; religion just happened to be it. if it hadn&#8217;t been, i think likely he&#8217;d've settled on something else instead.</p>
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