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	<title>Comments on: ATF Head on Heller</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/</link>
	<description>Remember, I do this to entertain me... not you.</description>
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		<title>By: Jim W</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203177</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203177</guid>
		<description>The original english law he is referring to was almost exactly the same as modern laws in open carry states that forbid &quot;going armed to the terror of the public&quot; and similar such language. The idea is that when the townspeople see a guy walking down the street dressed for a bank robbery or a war it will disturb the peace. 

Note that this says nothing whatsoever about what weapons may be KEPT as opposed to carried in public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The original english law he is referring to was almost exactly the same as modern laws in open carry states that forbid &#8220;going armed to the terror of the public&#8221; and similar such language. The idea is that when the townspeople see a guy walking down the street dressed for a bank robbery or a war it will disturb the peace. </p>
<p>Note that this says nothing whatsoever about what weapons may be KEPT as opposed to carried in public.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim W</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203175</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203175</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d be perfectly happy to not carry my machine guns so long as I am able to own them and keep them at home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be perfectly happy to not carry my machine guns so long as I am able to own them and keep them at home.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203172</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203172</guid>
		<description>Give F Troop a break.  If the 2nd were strictly enforced, they&#039;d all be unemployed.

I say buy them off.  Give each of them a big severence package, say &quot;thanks&quot; and send them packing.  Auction off all department assets.  It&#039;s the least painful way to rid ourselves of an institution that should never have existed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give F Troop a break.  If the 2nd were strictly enforced, they&#8217;d all be unemployed.</p>
<p>I say buy them off.  Give each of them a big severence package, say &#8220;thanks&#8221; and send them packing.  Auction off all department assets.  It&#8217;s the least painful way to rid ourselves of an institution that should never have existed.</p>
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		<title>By: straightarrow</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203170</link>
		<dc:creator>straightarrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203170</guid>
		<description>Ron W. I disagree. They should be disbanded, but should be forever prohibited from employment in any law enforcement capacity and most other government capacities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron W. I disagree. They should be disbanded, but should be forever prohibited from employment in any law enforcement capacity and most other government capacities.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203168</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203168</guid>
		<description>i have been making the same argument about the word and for years but in a different argument...

why are we waisting all this tax money on the electric chair and lethal injections... bring back hangings and firing squads... 

they might indeed be cruel... but they arent cruel &lt;strong&gt;and&lt;/strong&gt;unusual... in fact they are quite common...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have been making the same argument about the word and for years but in a different argument&#8230;</p>
<p>why are we waisting all this tax money on the electric chair and lethal injections&#8230; bring back hangings and firing squads&#8230; </p>
<p>they might indeed be cruel&#8230; but they arent cruel <strong>and</strong>unusual&#8230; in fact they are quite common&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DirtCrashr</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203165</link>
		<dc:creator>DirtCrashr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203165</guid>
		<description>Sullivan&#039;s gotta go and the ATF needs to go with it.  Away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sullivan&#8217;s gotta go and the ATF needs to go with it.  Away.</p>
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		<title>By: vinnie</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203163</link>
		<dc:creator>vinnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203163</guid>
		<description>I have been waiting for someone to point out that the select fire AK 47 is THE gun &quot;in common use&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been waiting for someone to point out that the select fire AK 47 is THE gun &#8220;in common use&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron W</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203157</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203157</guid>
		<description>Constitutionally, the ATF is &quot;unusual&quot; and dangerous to our rights.  It should be disabanded and its personnel reassigned to the Border Patrol which is &quot;usual&quot; where they could do us some good to &quot;protect the States against invasion&quot; (ArticleIV, Section 4 and still be &quot;dangerous&quot; to those attempting to enter the U.S. illegally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Constitutionally, the ATF is &#8220;unusual&#8221; and dangerous to our rights.  It should be disabanded and its personnel reassigned to the Border Patrol which is &#8220;usual&#8221; where they could do us some good to &#8220;protect the States against invasion&#8221; (ArticleIV, Section 4 and still be &#8220;dangerous&#8221; to those attempting to enter the U.S. illegally.</p>
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		<title>By: RAH</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203149</link>
		<dc:creator>RAH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203149</guid>
		<description>At least the ATF take on Heller is better than the FBI. I am not surprised they took the interpretation that unusual and dangerous was against machine guns. I believe it was meant to assuage their fears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least the ATF take on Heller is better than the FBI. I am not surprised they took the interpretation that unusual and dangerous was against machine guns. I believe it was meant to assuage their fears.</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203143</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203143</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s apparently &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/07/10/i-wonder-who-he-could-mean/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;6 dealer&lt;/a&gt;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s apparently <a href="http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/07/10/i-wonder-who-he-could-mean/" rel="nofollow">6 dealer</a>s.</p>
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		<title>By: kaveman</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203142</link>
		<dc:creator>kaveman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203142</guid>
		<description>You see this?

5. The applicant takes his or her completed application to a licensed firearm dealer to take delivery of the pistol. If the dealer is outside the District, the dealer transports the pistol to a licensed dealer in the District to complete the transaction.

I wasn&#039;t aware that DC had any licensed dealers besides Josh Sugarmann.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You see this?</p>
<p>5. The applicant takes his or her completed application to a licensed firearm dealer to take delivery of the pistol. If the dealer is outside the District, the dealer transports the pistol to a licensed dealer in the District to complete the transaction.</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t aware that DC had any licensed dealers besides Josh Sugarmann.</p>
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		<title>By: Stormy Dragon</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203138</link>
		<dc:creator>Stormy Dragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203138</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t think the court specified that machineguns were what they meant when they referred to dangerous and unusual weapons.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Par for the course.  Why should the ATF stop making up stuff now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don’t think the court specified that machineguns were what they meant when they referred to dangerous and unusual weapons.</p></blockquote>
<p>Par for the course.  Why should the ATF stop making up stuff now?</p>
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		<title>By: bob r</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203136</link>
		<dc:creator>bob r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203136</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You know it occurs to me that any new technology could be banned if this dangerous or unusual meme sticks.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Exactly why we should _stop_ writing &quot;dangerous &lt;i&gt;or&lt;/i&gt; unusual&quot;.  That phrase occurs only once in the &lt;i&gt;Heller&lt;/i&gt; opinion and even there it was only quoting from &lt;i&gt;Miller&lt;/i&gt; where in &lt;i&gt;Miller&lt;/i&gt; it was quoting from the government&#039;s brief. 

From &lt;i&gt;Heller&lt;/i&gt;, at page 55: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;We also recognize another important limitation on the
right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have
explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those
“in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think
that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition
of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual
weapons.”&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

I think the &quot;and&quot; is very important as it requires the weapon to be _both_ dangerous _and_ unusual.  I would also take &quot;dangerous&quot; to mean dangerous to the user or to mean indiscriminate in effect, e.g., a hand grenade.  With this reading caseless ammo would be okay.  Machine guns would also be okay -- they may not be &quot;common&quot; but there is certainly nothing particularly &quot;unusual&quot; _or_ &quot;dangerous&quot; about them.

It would seem the &quot;in common use at the time&quot; phrasing is subject to attack also: the first amendment certainly protects more than just what was &quot;in common use at the time&quot;.  I am not aware of any &lt;i&gt;legitimate&lt;/i&gt; reason the same should not apply to the second -- particularly when one considers the very &lt;i&gt;purpose&lt;/i&gt; of the second.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You know it occurs to me that any new technology could be banned if this dangerous or unusual meme sticks.</p></blockquote>
<p>Exactly why we should _stop_ writing &#8220;dangerous <i>or</i> unusual&#8221;.  That phrase occurs only once in the <i>Heller</i> opinion and even there it was only quoting from <i>Miller</i> where in <i>Miller</i> it was quoting from the government&#8217;s brief. </p>
<p>From <i>Heller</i>, at page 55: </p>
<blockquote><p>We also recognize another important limitation on the<br />
right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have<br />
explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those<br />
“in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think<br />
that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition<br />
of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual<br />
weapons.”</p></blockquote>
<p>I think the &#8220;and&#8221; is very important as it requires the weapon to be _both_ dangerous _and_ unusual.  I would also take &#8220;dangerous&#8221; to mean dangerous to the user or to mean indiscriminate in effect, e.g., a hand grenade.  With this reading caseless ammo would be okay.  Machine guns would also be okay &#8212; they may not be &#8220;common&#8221; but there is certainly nothing particularly &#8220;unusual&#8221; _or_ &#8220;dangerous&#8221; about them.</p>
<p>It would seem the &#8220;in common use at the time&#8221; phrasing is subject to attack also: the first amendment certainly protects more than just what was &#8220;in common use at the time&#8221;.  I am not aware of any <i>legitimate</i> reason the same should not apply to the second &#8212; particularly when one considers the very <i>purpose</i> of the second.</p>
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		<title>By: 1894C</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/15/atf-head-on-heller/comment-page-1/#comment-203131</link>
		<dc:creator>1894C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16460#comment-203131</guid>
		<description>You know it occurs to me that any new technology could be banned if this dangerous or unusual meme sticks.

Unusual means different or out of the ordinary. Would a weapon that fires caseless ammunition fit such a bill? They exist but are certainly unusual....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know it occurs to me that any new technology could be banned if this dangerous or unusual meme sticks.</p>
<p>Unusual means different or out of the ordinary. Would a weapon that fires caseless ammunition fit such a bill? They exist but are certainly unusual&#8230;.</p>
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