Comments on: Chicks and Guns http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/ Remember, I do this to entertain me... not you. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:39:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sebastian-PGP http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-203014 Sebastian-PGP Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:11:09 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-203014 There's gotta be a fallacy in there somewhere ;). <em>Putting the phallus in fallacy since 1975</em> There’s gotta be a fallacy in there somewhere ;) .

Putting the phallus in fallacy since 1975

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-203013 SayUncle Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:08:53 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-203013 And I'm not appealing to authority. Just stating whose advice I personally would choose to follow. And I’m not appealing to authority. Just stating whose advice I personally would choose to follow.

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-203010 SayUncle Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:58:37 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-203010 Holy Jesus. Can we never have a discussion without someone bring up logical fallacies! Don't make me break out the <em>fallacy fallacy</em> fallacy. Holy Jesus. Can we never have a discussion without someone bring up logical fallacies! Don’t make me break out the fallacy fallacy fallacy.

]]> By: Sebastian-PGP http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-203009 Sebastian-PGP Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:55:03 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-203009 <blockquote>And my dad would probably ask how many actual firefights he has won.</blockquote> A few; DR was in law enforcement for quite a while and has told some hair raising stories. But I think you're missing my point about the appeal to authority argument. I dig what your dad is saying, but what I'm saying is the basic mechanics of effective shooting don't change based on what the target is. Of course actual combat is different than a range day, that's practically an a priori statement. But DR's system is built around techniques that will be effective in life or death situations; if your muscle memory is built around effective recoil control and accurate, fast shooting, that'll serve you well when the targets are real and shooting back. I'm simply pointing out that over the last couple decades, people who train and refine tactics for the people who do actually drop from choppers to the roof of 5 story buildings and engage live targets have studied the mechanics of how to effectively control recoil and be accurate, and there's an argument that old Weaver strong arm side elbow lock has been improved upon. Seeing as the list of law enforcement and military orgs that use DR's stuff is pretty long, I'd say we can probably call the appeal to authority thing kind of a moot point.

And my dad would probably ask how many actual firefights he has won.

A few; DR was in law enforcement for quite a while and has told some hair raising stories. But I think you’re missing my point about the appeal to authority argument. I dig what your dad is saying, but what I’m saying is the basic mechanics of effective shooting don’t change based on what the target is. Of course actual combat is different than a range day, that’s practically an a priori statement. But DR’s system is built around techniques that will be effective in life or death situations; if your muscle memory is built around effective recoil control and accurate, fast shooting, that’ll serve you well when the targets are real and shooting back.

I’m simply pointing out that over the last couple decades, people who train and refine tactics for the people who do actually drop from choppers to the roof of 5 story buildings and engage live targets have studied the mechanics of how to effectively control recoil and be accurate, and there’s an argument that old Weaver strong arm side elbow lock has been improved upon.

Seeing as the list of law enforcement and military orgs that use DR’s stuff is pretty long, I’d say we can probably call the appeal to authority thing kind of a moot point.

]]> By: Dad http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-203007 Dad Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:35:14 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-203007 I was not criticizing I was just offering my opinion. I think the word traditionalist may refer to us " Ol Farts " and I guess I am. I was a Range Master in my former job and I also attended many courses at Thunder Ranch at that time located in Texas. I would suggest that people use whatever they are successful with. People tend to react in a real situation the way they were trained. There was one case were a FBI agent was found dead with brass in his hands, So we trained our people to be prepared for anything, leave the brass on the ground and always check your 6. front sight front sight. I have seen many of the" hot shooters"do great at ranges and paper targets. Have them to drop from a chopper to the roof of a 5 story building and engage targets that shoot back ( lasers ) and you are using live ammo, you will see a big difference. I guess what I am trying to say is get the basics, like don't lean into the weapon in order to anticipate the recoil, perform immediate action drills, failure drills ( 2 to the body 1 to the head ) so if the situation does arrive you will be ready and then you can go home to your family and when you meet with your friends over a beer then you can discuss one method over another. One thing I have experienced is a loud thumping noise in my head, I realized later it was my heart and guess what it didn't happen at a range. I was not criticizing I was just offering my opinion. I think the word traditionalist may refer to us ” Ol Farts ” and I guess I am. I was a Range Master in my former job and I also attended many courses at Thunder Ranch at that time located in Texas. I would suggest that people use whatever they are successful with. People tend to react in a real situation the way they were trained. There was one case were a FBI agent was found dead with brass in his hands, So we trained our people to be prepared for anything, leave the brass on the ground and always check your 6. front sight front sight. I have seen many of the” hot shooters”do great at ranges and paper targets. Have them to drop from a chopper to the roof of a 5 story building and engage targets that shoot back ( lasers ) and you are using live ammo, you will see a big difference. I guess what I am trying to say is get the basics, like don’t lean into the weapon in order to anticipate the recoil, perform immediate action drills, failure drills ( 2 to the body 1 to the head ) so if the situation does arrive you will be ready and then you can go home to your family and when you meet with your friends over a beer then you can discuss one method over another. One thing I have experienced is a loud thumping noise in my head, I realized later it was my heart and guess what it didn’t happen at a range.

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-203002 SayUncle Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:49:20 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-203002 And my dad would probably ask how many actual firefights he has won. And my dad would probably ask how many actual firefights he has won.

]]> By: Sebastian-PGP http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-203001 Sebastian-PGP Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:49:06 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-203001 Which of course is not to disparage his or anyone else's ability; but there ARE reasons for using the reverse Chapman type stance, and lots of very competitive shooters are having lots of success with it. I'm sure you can make arguments for both methods. Which of course is not to disparage his or anyone else’s ability; but there ARE reasons for using the reverse Chapman type stance, and lots of very competitive shooters are having lots of success with it. I’m sure you can make arguments for both methods.

]]> By: Sebastian-PGP http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-203000 Sebastian-PGP Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:46:48 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-203000 Ah yes appeal to authority. :) Well I suppose DR Middlebrooks would simply say "how many shooting titles has he won, and can he outshoot me or my students?" FIST Fire works, period. There are ways things have always been done, and then there are improvements on those methods ;). Ah yes appeal to authority. :) Well I suppose DR Middlebrooks would simply say “how many shooting titles has he won, and can he outshoot me or my students?” FIST Fire works, period. There are ways things have always been done, and then there are improvements on those methods ;) .

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202975 SayUncle Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:20:56 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202975 Well, given that my dad has actually been in combat while in the army, CIA, DOD, and sheriff's dept. and always come out on top, I'm gonna lean toward his advice myself ;) Well, given that my dad has actually been in combat while in the army, CIA, DOD, and sheriff’s dept. and always come out on top, I’m gonna lean toward his advice myself ;)

]]> By: Sebastian-PGP http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202970 Sebastian-PGP Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:38:19 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202970 I'm surprised we're not seeing more traditionalists get exercised over my disagreement with Unk's dad. :) I’m surprised we’re not seeing more traditionalists get exercised over my disagreement with Unk’s dad. :)

]]> By: drstrangegun http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202943 drstrangegun Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:08:19 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202943 slap, rack, bang. SLAP the manufacturer of whatever junk part failed, go to the gun shop and get another one off the RACK, and then BANG you're back on target. I'm so totally kidding... slap, rack, bang.

SLAP the manufacturer of whatever junk part failed, go to the gun shop and get another one off the RACK, and then BANG you’re back on target.

I’m so totally kidding…

]]> By: drstrangegun http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202944 drstrangegun Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:08:19 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202944 slap, rack, bang. SLAP the manufacturer of whatever junk part failed, go to the gun shop and get another one off the RACK, and then BANG you're back on target. I'm so totally kidding... slap, rack, bang.

SLAP the manufacturer of whatever junk part failed, go to the gun shop and get another one off the RACK, and then BANG you’re back on target.

I’m so totally kidding…

]]> By: Sebastian-PGP http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202908 Sebastian-PGP Thu, 10 Jul 2008 03:05:45 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202908 Actually, she's got it right if you're shooting a certain style. The reverse-Chapman style of locking the support arm elbow offers superior recoil control. I've learned that from studying the <a href="http://www.tacticalshooting.com/faq.html" rel="nofollow">Fist-Fire system</a>. Lots of really hot shit shooters are using that or something similar. Chapman/Weaver/locking the right arm looks tacticool on TV, but was real modern in about 1978. Actually, she’s got it right if you’re shooting a certain style. The reverse-Chapman style of locking the support arm elbow offers superior recoil control. I’ve learned that from studying the Fist-Fire system. Lots of really hot shit shooters are using that or something similar.

Chapman/Weaver/locking the right arm looks tacticool on TV, but was real modern in about 1978.

]]> By: HardCorps http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202906 HardCorps Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:21:02 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202906 She needs to use over the top slide rack method. (make a pirate hook with all your fingers together, now put the hook on top of the slide where the grippy part is. Squeeze hard, and pull back as hard as you can letting your hand fly off. It is a powerful, effective way to rack the slide.) If there was a actual jam vs dummy rnd, she probably wouldn't have been able to clear it, especially with her arms fully extended. She needs to use over the top slide rack method. (make a pirate hook with all your fingers together, now put the hook on top of the slide where the grippy part is. Squeeze hard, and pull back as hard as you can letting your hand fly off. It is a powerful, effective way to rack the slide.) If there was a actual jam vs dummy rnd, she probably wouldn’t have been able to clear it, especially with her arms fully extended.

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202901 SayUncle Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:42:39 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202901 thought it was a glock but they do put dummy rounds in them to test your 1337 5k1115. thought it was a glock but they do put dummy rounds in them to test your 1337 5k1115.

]]> By: chris http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202900 chris Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:37:01 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202900 She had 2 or 3 malfs. Was that a Glock or a 1911? She had 2 or 3 malfs.

Was that a Glock or a 1911?

]]> By: Joe Huffman http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202899 Joe Huffman Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:25:58 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202899 Good advice from your dad. I noticed the last two but not the first one. Good advice from your dad. I noticed the last two but not the first one.

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202898 SayUncle Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:24:18 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202898 No, it means i can't type. slap, rack, ban<strong>G</strong> No, it means i can’t type. slap, rack, banG

]]> By: ben http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/comment-page-1/#comment-202897 ben Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:17:30 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16393#comment-202897 slap, rack, bank? Is that like a crime reference or something? slap, rack, bank? Is that like a crime reference or something?

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