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	<title>Comments on: Footnote 27 and Strict Scrutiny</title>
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	<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/03/footnote-27-and-strict-scrutiny/</link>
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		<title>By: gattsuru</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/03/footnote-27-and-strict-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-202716</link>
		<dc:creator>gattsuru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Not all enumerated rights are fundamental, and not all fundamental rights are enumerated -- the right to trial by jury is not fundamental, while the right to interstate travel is fundamental.  No, it doesn&#039;t make sense, nor does it follow the dictionary definition.  SCOTUS wouldn&#039;t do it if it were logical.

That said, it does seem like a fundamental right by the &lt;i&gt;Carolene Products&lt;/i&gt; definition : it&#039;s listed within the first ten amendments, exists outside of the presence of the federal government, and is not an internal aspect of the court.  It &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; be a matter of strict scrutiny, if it uses the same methods as the protections recognized by the First Amendment.

That said, I&#039;d be surprised if the court finds such.  If Kennedy was willing to sign to strict scrutiny, I can&#039;t see Scalia avoiding the subject.  Chances are better they&#039;ll just keep fishing the subject around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all enumerated rights are fundamental, and not all fundamental rights are enumerated &#8212; the right to trial by jury is not fundamental, while the right to interstate travel is fundamental.  No, it doesn&#8217;t make sense, nor does it follow the dictionary definition.  SCOTUS wouldn&#8217;t do it if it were logical.</p>
<p>That said, it does seem like a fundamental right by the <i>Carolene Products</i> definition : it&#8217;s listed within the first ten amendments, exists outside of the presence of the federal government, and is not an internal aspect of the court.  It <i>should</i> be a matter of strict scrutiny, if it uses the same methods as the protections recognized by the First Amendment.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;d be surprised if the court finds such.  If Kennedy was willing to sign to strict scrutiny, I can&#8217;t see Scalia avoiding the subject.  Chances are better they&#8217;ll just keep fishing the subject around.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/03/footnote-27-and-strict-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-202683</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>First guys, let&#039;s play nice..
Second, my jump to strict scrutiny came from the &quot;Amongst other considerations, strict scrutiny applies to reviews of laws impacting fundamental rights&quot; line combined with the footnote referencing RKBA with other enumerated rights. I equated enumerated with fundamental.
So, at least we can say that Second Amendment issues will not be evaluated under rational basis review.
Does the footnote push us into strict scrutiny or does intermediate scrutiny have an opening?
And no, I obviously am not a lawyer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First guys, let&#8217;s play nice..<br />
Second, my jump to strict scrutiny came from the &#8220;Amongst other considerations, strict scrutiny applies to reviews of laws impacting fundamental rights&#8221; line combined with the footnote referencing RKBA with other enumerated rights. I equated enumerated with fundamental.<br />
So, at least we can say that Second Amendment issues will not be evaluated under rational basis review.<br />
Does the footnote push us into strict scrutiny or does intermediate scrutiny have an opening?<br />
And no, I obviously am not a lawyer.</p>
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		<title>By: gattsuru</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/03/footnote-27-and-strict-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-202673</link>
		<dc:creator>gattsuru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16335#comment-202673</guid>
		<description>

And loose tag.  Crud.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I can’t think of any cases I’ve read where the court invalidated a law using such a test.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;i&gt;&lt;a&gt;&quot;City of Cleburne v. Cleburne Living Center, Inc.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;, and an &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.nj.com/njv_scott_bach/2008/06/gun_rationing_bill_a339_target.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;impressive case in New Jersey&lt;/a&gt;, for example.  It&#039;s &lt;b&gt;very&lt;/b&gt; hard to fail rational basis, but it&#039;s not impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And loose tag.  Crud.</p>
<blockquote><p>I can’t think of any cases I’ve read where the court invalidated a law using such a test.</p></blockquote>
<p><i><a>&#8220;City of Cleburne v. Cleburne Living Center, Inc.&#8221;</a></i>, and an <a href="http://blog.nj.com/njv_scott_bach/2008/06/gun_rationing_bill_a339_target.html" rel="nofollow">impressive case in New Jersey</a>, for example.  It&#8217;s <b>very</b> hard to fail rational basis, but it&#8217;s not impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: gattsuru</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/03/footnote-27-and-strict-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-202672</link>
		<dc:creator>gattsuru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=16335#comment-202672</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m not a constitutional law scholar or practitioner.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Thanks for making that obvious.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Strict scrutiny is the highest level of review and it is almost impossible to pass.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Ah, no.  Lawyers tend to call it such, but it&#039;s neither the highest level or review nor unlikely to be bypassed -- it doesn&#039;t match up with the scrutiny set for prior restraints on free speech, often called &quot;superstrict scrutiny&quot;, nor instantly fatal.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=897360&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Thirty percent of laws facing strict scrutiny challenges get through the courts in one piece, and a &lt;i&gt;majority&lt;/i&gt; of religious burden tests survive&lt;/a&gt;.
&lt;blockquote&gt;And it is almost never applied outside of 14th Amendment cases involving racial classification.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It&#039;s invoked in every case involving fundamental rights or suspect classifications -- that includes cases with no actual racial classification, only racial effects (Yick Wo v. Hopkins) or effects based on nationality, cases involving the content but not the time or place or manner of free speech (over 200 cases, including such as Street v. New York), and other fundamental rights such as religious freedom, freedom of association, et all.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Ever since strict scrutiny was invented, the S.Ct. has been backing away from it, which is why sex/gender discrimination under the 14th Amendment is covered by intermediate scrutiny.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Since the case &lt;i&gt;Mississippi University for Women v. Hogan&lt;/i&gt;, gender discrimination has been treated on a level closer to strict scrutiny than intermediate scrutiny.  The courts have not been backing away from strict.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Instead, various balancing tests are used. In the first amendment context, for example, courts weigh the appropriateness of time, place and manner restrictions, look for narrow tailoring, etc.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Er, no, they don&#039;t.  Time, place, and manner restrictions are held under intermediate scrutiny, meaning that they are only acceptable &quot;if important governmental interests... are furthered by substantially related means&quot;.  It doesn&#039;t matter what the degree of the time, place, and manner restrictions are, or the important governmental interest is, only that the connection exists.  The burden can be massive and the benefit minimal.  It&#039;s &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; a balancing test, and only strict scrutiny requires that the law focus on being narrowly tailored.
&lt;blockquote&gt;But I’m not aware of any S.Ct. application of strict scrutiny to any enumerated rights.

And while it’s true that footnote 27 says 2nd Amendment laws must pass a test higher than rational review, that test will likely be some sort of balancing or line-drawing test, just like with all the other enumerated rights.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The only enumerated right that&#039;s limited by a balancing test is that of due process (and arguably copyright, depending on whether you find that enumerated).  Free speech restrictions not based on time, place, or manner restrictions face strict scrutiny, and have for most of the last century.  Freedom of association and freedom of and from religion tests face strict scrutiny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m not a constitutional law scholar or practitioner.</p></blockquote>
<p>Thanks for making that obvious.</p>
<blockquote><p>Strict scrutiny is the highest level of review and it is almost impossible to pass.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah, no.  Lawyers tend to call it such, but it&#8217;s neither the highest level or review nor unlikely to be bypassed &#8212; it doesn&#8217;t match up with the scrutiny set for prior restraints on free speech, often called &#8220;superstrict scrutiny&#8221;, nor instantly fatal.  <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=897360" rel="nofollow">Thirty percent of laws facing strict scrutiny challenges get through the courts in one piece, and a <i>majority</i> of religious burden tests survive</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>And it is almost never applied outside of 14th Amendment cases involving racial classification.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s invoked in every case involving fundamental rights or suspect classifications &#8212; that includes cases with no actual racial classification, only racial effects (Yick Wo v. Hopkins) or effects based on nationality, cases involving the content but not the time or place or manner of free speech (over 200 cases, including such as Street v. New York), and other fundamental rights such as religious freedom, freedom of association, et all.</p>
<blockquote><p>Ever since strict scrutiny was invented, the S.Ct. has been backing away from it, which is why sex/gender discrimination under the 14th Amendment is covered by intermediate scrutiny.</p></blockquote>
<p>Since the case <i>Mississippi University for Women v. Hogan</i>, gender discrimination has been treated on a level closer to strict scrutiny than intermediate scrutiny.  The courts have not been backing away from strict.</p>
<blockquote><p>Instead, various balancing tests are used. In the first amendment context, for example, courts weigh the appropriateness of time, place and manner restrictions, look for narrow tailoring, etc.</p></blockquote>
<p>Er, no, they don&#8217;t.  Time, place, and manner restrictions are held under intermediate scrutiny, meaning that they are only acceptable &#8220;if important governmental interests&#8230; are furthered by substantially related means&#8221;.  It doesn&#8217;t matter what the degree of the time, place, and manner restrictions are, or the important governmental interest is, only that the connection exists.  The burden can be massive and the benefit minimal.  It&#8217;s <b>not</b> a balancing test, and only strict scrutiny requires that the law focus on being narrowly tailored.</p>
<blockquote><p>But I’m not aware of any S.Ct. application of strict scrutiny to any enumerated rights.</p>
<p>And while it’s true that footnote 27 says 2nd Amendment laws must pass a test higher than rational review, that test will likely be some sort of balancing or line-drawing test, just like with all the other enumerated rights.</p></blockquote>
<p>The only enumerated right that&#8217;s limited by a balancing test is that of due process (and arguably copyright, depending on whether you find that enumerated).  Free speech restrictions not based on time, place, or manner restrictions face strict scrutiny, and have for most of the last century.  Freedom of association and freedom of and from religion tests face strict scrutiny.</p>
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		<title>By: mike w.</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/07/03/footnote-27-and-strict-scrutiny/comment-page-1/#comment-202671</link>
		<dc:creator>mike w.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well I certainly hope  the &quot;rational-basis / reasonableness&quot; test doesn&#039;t end up being the standard in future 2A cases.  I can&#039;t think of any cases I&#039;ve read where the court invalidated a law using such a test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I certainly hope  the &#8220;rational-basis / reasonableness&#8221; test doesn&#8217;t end up being the standard in future 2A cases.  I can&#8217;t think of any cases I&#8217;ve read where the court invalidated a law using such a test.</p>
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