Let’s face it, Bob. The AHSA is you, three or four other people, and a fax machine. Just like the ICHV, Gun Guys, Freedom States Alliance, VPC . . . . if I’m wrong, take the big step, big fella. Ask your supporters to join and pay a modest fee for membership, just like the big, bad NRA, the evil extremist GOA, and the evil Jewish extremist JPFO. I belong to all three of those, and the difference between belonging to them and “supporting” you is that belonging to them costs me money and time. It means I care enough about what they’re doing to make an effort.

Sophisticated – Despite my natural geekitude, I know better than to wear white socks with black pants and shoes. Check.

Straight thinking – Gang Bangers who see no problem with ignoring laws against murder probably don’t give a rat’s hindquarters about your gun laws. Seems pretty straight forward thinking to me. Check. Also. not gay, double check.

Hunter – Oops, never been. Got no problem with it, just never had the time.

Shooter – I’m a noobie, but check.

What I am going to point out is that internet surveys of some gun forums (for whatever they’re worth, acknowledged as debatable) point to a population that’s 80% college educated, which stands in stark contrast to the general population, which is only 30% college educated.

I’m also going to point out that it is a conceit of our adversaries to assert that proponents of a civil society that is formidably armed with militarily credible arms are uneducated, unsophisticated and bent thinking.

This supplies them with a fictitious contrast to their supposedly enlightened selves, a big wet, sloppy pile of warm fuzzies, and is pretty central to their theory of identity.

Me, personally, I wouldn’t go subscribing to theories of my identity based on anything other than my own virtues and deficits. Then I don’t have to go into angsty identity crisis every time I learn something about my opponents.

Sophisticated: Reckon it depends on who you ask. I have a large collection of classical music LPs, but I paid only about 50 cents a throw for most of them (the university library’s sale bin is my very good friend). I’m a godawful beer snob, does that count? On the other hand, you might think I was a yahoo if you heard me telling my kids “Get to de choppa!” every time we go to our car.

Hunter: Not yet. Reckon I ought to pass comps first, then I plan to get myself a Springer spaniel and a nice 20-gauge SxS.

Shooter: Every chance I get–which is not near enough.

There is nothing I could say about Bob Ricker, or any other gun-grabbing astroturf peddler, that would not violate my personal standards of public decorum; therefore, I shall say nothing.

Sophistication: if masquerading to drive a political agenda is AHSA’s measure of sophistication, then evidently I don’t qualify.

Straight Thinking: I’ve led a successful professional career that includes 14 years between two Fortune 50 companies, and presently run my own company at a reasonable profit. (and that’s without handouts from the Joyce Foundation)

Shooting: my granddad taught me at age 10, later I served 4 years in the Army. I’ve taught over a dozen new shooters, including co-workers and family members. Most subsequently joined the NRA.

Unlike AHSA and their ilk, I’m not paid to advocate my position on gun rights and I don’t try to force my beliefs on anybody…certainly not through governmental force as Brady and AHSA desires.

AHSA and the like are an abomination and will be fought using all legal means.

Sophisticated: My photographs are in the collections of several major museums and prestigious collections, as well as being featured on notecards carried in nationwide booksellers.

Straight thinking: Enough to recognize the difference between shit and shinola, even when the shit tries to disquise itself.

Hunter: Shot deer the last two years with 13 different military rifles, plus guided folks to more deer kills than that.

Shooter: Current Texas Highpower Rifle Champion. Twice Louisiana Highpower Rifle Champion. Regional Medals. Distinguished Rifle. Seven years as a firer on National Match Teams. NM Pistol Presidents 100.

The above qualifications give me the perspective to be disgusted by people like Bob Ricker and the group he represents.

Let’s see…

Educated: BA in International Relations from the Johns Hopkins University. Three classes away from my MA in National Security Studies from AMU. Certified as both a print and broadcast journalist from the Defense Information School. Yeah, I think I have that covered.

Sophisticated: I like Opera, Ballet and Broadway. I nearly did a double major at Hopkins and the Peabody Conservatory in voice. I’m an amateur photographer and author. I think I have sophistication covered.

Straight thinking: I believe in freedom and personal responsibility. I believe we are all held to a higher standard, because we understand what kind of critical responsibility gun ownership is. I don’t like organizations or individuals who claim to respect individual rights, but hide behind a veneer of superciliousness to mask their true agenda.

Hunter: Nope, not me.

Shooter: Expert with the M16 and the M9 (US Army). Go to the range on a regular basis.

Yeah. Got that covered.

As for his comments about the “bitter female” with the chip on her shoulder… the ONLY thing I’m bitter about is misogynistic, lying asshats who claim to respect the right to keep and bear arms, but are nothing more than elitist jerks who snuggle up to outright gun banners, while using misleading organizational names to misrepresent their message.

Believe me, Mr. Ricker, as an educated, sophisticated, rational woman, who respects freedom and truly understands it from a point of view of someone who came to this country from a socialist hellhole, I wouldn’t come NEAR your organization of traitorous sheep with a ten-foot pole.

Just remind the SC that the Second doesn’t “grant” anyone a right. The Bill of Rights was put in place to confirm the rights granted to free people by “Nature’s God”, as I recall it. It limits Government, not the People.

I wouldn’t hang my hat on that argument if I were you. It’s a double-edged sword. To the extent that the Second Amendment doesn’t grant the RKBA, but merely preserve the right that existed before, e.g., under the English Bill of Rights, it’s a bit narrower than most gunnies might like. Plenty broad to pwn DC, of course.

Well, Bob, you could look at the 48 States with concealed weapons permits. Thirty-eight of them “shall issue”. And let’s not upset your “supporters” too much by mentioning the States which have “open carry” without necessity of a permit.

But I am sophisticated enough to understand that the 2A is an individual right and more to the point, something that is not negotiable.

I’m straight thinking enough to realize that elitism is a poor marketing tool.

pistolero, I am in SW Ar., whereabouts in E. Texas are you located?

Straightarrow, currently I am in the Beaumont-Port Arthur area, in the southeast corner of Texas — hence the name of my blog. Lol..but it’s a small world, indeed. I actually grew up probably not too far from you, in Texarkana. I lived on the Texas side, graduated from Texas High School. Left T-town in 1998, but I still have several friends there.

You aren’t interested in actually debating the merits of anyone’s position, you’re just declaring anyone who agrees with your position to be “educated, sophisticated and straight thinking” and anyone who disagrees with you to not be. You’ve made that pretty obvious.
And to be fair, if all you want is to be *perceived* as educated, sophisticated and straight thinking, I have to admit that it’s a lot less work than sweating through a degree plan.

Not saying you’re wrong. I don’t know. But that is what they said.

I always get a kick out of this one. So many people think it means “with it”, “cool”, Cary Grantesque.

It actually explains a school of thought by the Greek philosopher Sophocles who posited that all humans were flawed and could never approach perfection due to their inherent flaws.

In that light, I am certainly “sophisticated”.

I have firearms to clean once I’ve fired them. So I have limited time to comment on the net about people who don’t think that the Second Amendment is as important as all the others.

Whatever…….

Just remind the SC that the Second doesn’t “grant” anyone a right. The Bill of Rights was put in place to confirm the rights granted to free people by “Nature’s God”, as I recall it. It limits Government, not the People.

Just like the other nine Amendments do.

Eat it and smile, Liberals. You can’t win this one.

Bob — you sound small and petty. Why don’t you just cut your losses.

Because he’s a small and petty excuse for a man? Me, I’m just an East Texas country boy with a fondness for Shiner Bock beer, honky-tonk country music, pistols and EBRs. I’m guessing I wouldn’t fit in his organization even if I do have a college degree, but that’s ok. I’d wear his seal of disapproval like a badge of honor.

WOW, 48 responses from the SayUncle brain trust!

Brain trust? Hmm. Interesting. Though from the people standing up here I’d say there are more brains than Bob’s organization can fantasize about supporting him.

The rest is none of your business.

It doesn’t matter what books I read, or what degrees I have, or who if anybody I’m going to vote for, or what I do for a living , or what I do for sport, or how often I kiss my Mom, or whether I like dogs or cats, or any of the rest.

I’m a peaceable human being, and I have an absolute right to defend myself, my family, and my neighbors, with the weapons of my choice.

You want me to justify myself to you, to prove that I’m worthy, that I meet your criteria for being an acceptable gun-owner.

Piss off, Bob, you gun-grabbing would-be only-one useful-to-tyrants idiot.

Just–piss off, and leave free men to go about their peaceable business.

We do not need your approval or permission, and who we are is none of your concern.

What a doltish argument! As though the number of comments on ONE RKBA blog has some sort of bearing on the relative strength of our movement.

I love that AHSA has pretty much given up even the pretense of being anything other than a Brady astroturf front.

I was issued my first M-14 when I was 17, at a little school on the Hudson River. The first lady I took down Flirtation Walk was my grandmother.

I figure this thread along has more contributors than that false flag organization of Bob Rickers.

And I have never read a better writer than Tam.

Drink mostly black tea.

Guns a’plenty. Just got my hunter’s ed. done after waiting far too long shooting at just paper.

Sophisticated? I’ve mixed with royalty and I know my Earl Grey from my Typhoo, but I’m having trouble distinguising Bob from an Assam…

March 22nd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
WOW, 48 responses from the SayUncle brain trust! You really have me worried now. Maybe all you rocket scientists could fill me in on how to translate 48 responses into real numbers of SayUncle supporters.

That’s 48 more that there is on the AHSA site which dos’nt appear to have a blog. Why’s that Bob? Maybe you dont want anyone to see that AHSA is a memberless organization?

BTW, none of us are in the AHSA Bob, so no whackos here.

Sophisticated:
I’m the only person I know to have seen the play “Tartuffe” in English, French, and Creole. Then again, I drive a global-warming inducing SUV with 210,00 miles on it. We’ll call it a wash.

Straight Thinking: Clever enough to run a business, I suppose that would quality me.

Hunter: Varmints and coyotes, mostly.

Shooter: Yep.

Incidentally, I moved from California to Utah in part because of lame gun laws (out of control taxes, a poor business environment, and the government’s inability to keep the lights on were also contributing factors).

Now that I’m here, I can’t move back unless I first want to sell about $7,500 worth of firearms that are illegal in CA. If the laws AHSA wants to see adopted are adopted by some states, you’ll not only see people leaving, but you’re also preventing a lot of well-educated people (like those who posted in the comments here) from moving in.

Honestly, though, I think that is someone scamming as Bob…

At this point I don’t think it matters. This has had a very interesting result. Appears that there are a lot of educated and smart people reading and participating here.

Me?

Education: BS in Physics.
Experience: I’ve worked for 13 years as a Health Physics engineer in the Nuclear industry. I was the guy that made certain the workers didn’t glow and the stuff that did was disposed of correctly.

At present I work in the Network Security Field.

Hunting: Not in a while. Hunting in the north-east has become much more problematic since I was a kid. Especially where I live now.
Shooter Yep. I like punching holes in paper. Especially with historical weapons. (WW1 and earlier)

Sophisticated Sorry, I’m not that pretentious. I consider myself plain folk. By the definitions of sophistication laid out here, I suppose I could qualify. You folks have some pretty good taste.

Straight thinking: I think so, but that’s hard to say when you’re the one making the judgment. Many of my friends think I am, so I’ll go with their analysis.

Sophisticated: I know Dominique Aury’s pseudonym, I can usually find the right wine and guess the proper fork; I can move from motorcycling to a formal party with aplomb. I find quail eggs and caviar delightful and enjoy Mozart. –However, I am more comfortable in denim than silk and would just as soon spend an afternoon building pine bookshelves as taking High Tea at the Canterbury. (Will reconsider if they’re offering fresh popovers).

Straight Thinking: Nope. My thoughts tend to be complex, interwoven, even abstruse. It’s not easy but someone has to do it and clearly, Bob Ricker’s not the man for that job.

Hunter: Nope. I have hunted with my Dad. It was fun but for me, most of the fun was in walking around in the woods with my Dad.

Shooter: Most assuredly. Every chance I get, mostly target-shooting, primarily with semi-automatic handguns.

Sophisticated: Meh, the lst time I wore a suit was to a funeral.

Straight thinking: in my profession, if I don’t think straight, people literally die.

Hunter: used to, thinking about it again every time I see the deer wander through my back yard.

Shooter: USPSA matches every month, plus practice.

Nope, no target demographic to see here, move along.

Masters in Computer Science. I guess that qualifies as well-educated. Maybe I’m a troglodyte because I work in the financial industry. I mean, how low can you go in job choice?

Recreational shooter: Yes
2nd Amendment supporter: Yes
Self-defense advocate: Absolutely
Hunter: I’ve done it but Bambi has eluded me every time. Wiley creatures, I tell you.

Am I sophiscated? Does Canadian count? Bob, I’m a bloody foreigner and I own more guns than most of your so-called uneducated, knuckle-dragging rednecks! Who, by the way, are actually pretty smart.

I don’t drink beer or wine. I head straight to hard liquor the few times in a year that I drink.

If you’re trying to reach out to someone like me, I’m not getting it. The rifle I use for hunting on the rare times I’ve done it (nothing like paying $200 to sit in the woods and freeze for the fun of it) is the same one I use for target shooting. In fact, I’d go as far to say it’s a sniper rifle. Next year, I’ve going after the deer with an “assault weapon” (FAL to be exact).

How am I fitting your stereotype? I’d dare say “sophisticated” is code for “civilized gun-hating liberal”.

Recreational shooter- check
2nd Amendment supporter – check
Self defense advocate – check
Hunter- not lately
Sophisticated?

Maybe, maybe not- discriminating taste- definitely. You should hear my friends complain about my beer snobbery. Dressing up for an evening out for me usually means formal kilt and Prince Charlie jacket, while I may lounge around in my utilikilt at a dive bar playing pool on less formal occasions.

Sophistication: What Moriarty said.

Straight thinking: Linear thinking isn’t always the best approach; use it when needed.

Hunter: Nope; no objection to it, I just have too many other things to do.

Shooter: One of those “other things” I do whenever sufficient free time is available.

Oh, about that sophistication thing, Bob: Bite me.
And on the ““whacko” count: the only whacko to post on this thread is Bob Ricker.

Mr. Ricker, just because we don’t comment on every post, that doesn’t me we don’t read or support them.

Bob S.

Honestly, though, I think that is someone scamming as Bob…

I agree.

Whenever stuff comes across in my blog comments pretending to be somebody (like when I was threatened with a lawsuit) I run the IP through a WHOIS query on ARIN and see what netblock it resides in. That’ll let you know if they posted it from the company network, provided that the organization is actually large enough to own an address space of their own, though it might be as small as a /28 block.

But I’m just a dumb unedjumicated gun whacko following the NRA handbook, so what would I know about anything?

Can’t speak s’much for “sophisticated”, but this (Los Alamos, NM) is the best-educated town in the world: more PhD’s per capita than anywhere else on earth. The Sportsmen’s Club? Massive outdoor shooting range with a huge membership relative to the population of the town. There wasn’t even a movie theater when I moved here, but the Sportsmen’s Club is a local institution. When we moved into our current house, two different neighbors spontaneously asked us if we were hunters and proceeded to gossip about where the big elk were being seen this year.

Then again, maybe all them rigorous-thinking science and engineering types don’t count for much stacked up against the liberal-arts crowd that tends to make up the anti-gun group…

I ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to have my opinoin spoon fed to me anyone, least of all you. Critical Thinking there bud. It’s whats for dinner. I do research before forming opinions pal, maybe you should do the same.

*16+ years of honorable service to the US of A reaching the rank of E6 and graduate of two different NCO academies ought to count for something.

Too bad they didn’t call themselves the American Shooters and Hunters Association. The acronym would be ASHA, and we could call them ASsHAts.

2. Sophisticated? See #1 (”Classics” == Greek and Latin, in case you didn’t know that, Bob). Classical Musician with a Day Job, and emeritus board member (9 years served) of a local arts organization that brings world-class musicians (e.g. Yo Yo Ma, Midori, Juilliard String Quartet) to our medium-sized city.

Education: Master’s in Experimental Psych. (My field of concentration was cognitive neuroscience.) I left my PhD program to become a neurologist, but chose being a simple country doctor since that better suited my temperament. Residency trained and board certified in Family Medicine.

Sophistication: I’m smart enough to know the difference between chicken feed and chicken shit — and which one Bob’s peddling.

Straight thinking: If Doc Russia and I can call Bob a “whacko” we can have him involuntarily committed for up to 72 hours. (While that doesn’t qualify me as a “straight thinker”, I at least have the keys to the funny farm… which is more than we can say about Bob.)

Hunter: Not recently, but I’ve spent my share of time in the Clearwater drainage. I also manage and allow hunting on some 360 acres of my family’s land.

Shooter: Whenever I can, which is often.

Get knotted, Bob. You’re not fooling anyone.

(Or at least anyone who matters.)

Sophisticated – Like my ex-wife, I can fake it when I have to.

Straight thinking: Not gay, not even close.

Hunter: On occasion, I do prefer to cull the herd a little.

Shooter: You betcha. In fact, I would bet much more so than Mr. Ricker.

Sorry AHSA, that dog doesn’t hunt around here. Try again.

And Bob, I don’t agree with you.

How can you hope to reach “straight thinkers” when the evidence–to those capable of interpreting facts without emotions–clearly shows Gun Control doesn’t work?

I am a hunter and shooter. I am educated. I am a well compensated professional (read sophisticated). I live in a BIG city.

I know gun control doesn’t work. I know police help is from 3 to 10 minutes away AT BEST. I am responsible-NOT government–for the protection and welfare of my person and my family. 10 minutes is along time.

SB

Doan you mine me nun.

Save it for the next time you and your buddies are having martinis at the hunt club bar after “everyone got one” released pheasant.

Yeah, I suppose you won’t care if your over-unders are kept at the club, with the action wired and sealed.

Hint : when checking to see how many wackos a person represents, check the sitemeter.

Was it really Bob commenting above?

And why did John Rosenthal have to quit the AHSA just because he is also a member of some gun control groups? The text on the AHSA webpage says “his active involvement with certain gun control organizations made it very difficult for Mr. Rosenthal to subscribe to and support our policies that at times could be inconsistent with those of a pro-gun hunting and shooting organization.”

So the anti-gun Rosenthal had to quit AHSA because AHSA policies “are at times inconsistent with those of a pro-gun hunting and shooting organization,” or am I misreading this in my whacko inconsistent way?

Honestly, though, I think that is someone scamming as Bob… I have a hard time believing someone who can come up with a such a comprehensive, doublethink organization like the AHSA could make a comment so incontrovertibly stupid as that one…

Sophisticated: I shave my head and don’t read literature, so probably not, although I can usually chat with anyone from a average Joe to a US Senator and not be out of my depth, so maybe I got a little.

Straight Thinking: I support logical thought over emotional response any day

Hunter: Now that I have time, yep!

Sorry Bob, your group are poseurs.

Unsophisticated I’ll not only agree with, but wear with pride. I drink white wine with steak and don’t care for opera. Sue me.

And Bob, if you want to go into readership, your site doesn’t get enough to show any data on Alexa.

Want to tell us how many paying members you have?

Sophisticated: I’ll concede that trait since it’s mostly in the eye of the beholder. Presumably, from the perspective of a fake gun rights organization, anyone associated with a real gun rights organization lacks in sophistication and nuance.

Straight thinking: Pretty much. I voted for California’s marriage amendment in ‘00 but went wobbly on Virginia’s in ‘06. I have dated exclusively women, though, and have never thought about dating men, so I guess that makes me straight thinking, at least.

Hunter: Sorry, wife won’t allow it. I certainly have no moral objection to personally killing anything I’d pay a butcher to kill for me, and probably would enjoy the sport on a nice day with the right gang; it’s just not the hill I want to die on.

Shooter: Yup.

As for the name of the fake organization, in addition to being a shooter I am an American and have nothing against associations, so I figure 3 out of 4 can’t be too far off. The main reason I’ll never see eye to eye with AHSA is because I think ordinary citizens are “people,” guns are “arms,” and “shall not be infringed” means something other than “never existed to begin with.”

I think it should be clear from my comments here and on other “whacko” blogs that AHSA is reaching out to a more educated, sophisticated and straight thinking hunter and shooter demographic

Education: I have a BS and MS in Electrical Engineering.Sophisticated:See my shooter response.Straight thinking Currently I’m a software developer for Microsoft. You can’t pass the interviews if you can’t think straight.Hunter and shooter: I had a hunting license and went hunting one year. I got my deer with one shot through the vertebra of the neck from 255 yards away. But mostly I just shoot paper and steel targets with my handgun with my lawyer and college professor friends. And occasionally I shoot at high explosives with the director of a nonprofit Shakespearean theater company, a congressional candidate and other friends.

Sorry…doesn’t ring any bells.

Nobody’s really stupid enough to bait gunbloggers and their readership, are they? “Intellectual honesty”?? A few exchanges and then he’ll declare “Reasonable discourse!” and run for the hills.

Hi, Bob! Another non-hunting recreational shooter here! And I don’t agree with you either. I’m really looking forward to meeting Bitter at the 2nd Amendment Blog Bash. Perhaps you should attend as well!

Most everyone else is too busy with full time jobs. So…we read, laugh at you, then go about our merry way.

only seven comments to this post?

That exceeds AHSA’s membership.

Not everyone comments. And we pro-gunners generally allow comments unlike your buddies Helmke and Gonzo.

Total comments for this blog are currently at 52,336 and it reaches about 5,000 people a day. Hell, this blog is the fourth Google result for your organization.

Stick around, you might learn something. Like intellectual honesty. Or how to count (hint: your comment is number 9).

As far as AHAS is concerned I prefer an organization that is goint to proect ALL my rights–and AHAS is not the one.

Ricker can KMA.

I think anyone who is a “straight thinker” would disagree with them as their views are not backed by the empirical evidence. The only people that may back them up are the sorts who hunt for sport and don’t care if anyone else can own guns.

1) BS in engineering and an MBA. I’m also a licensed Professional Engineer and Geologist —- clearly not educated

2) I don’t drink but my favorite TV show is survivor ’cause I like watching Amanda’s nice body

3) Straight thinking ….. I’m not gay either (see #3), not that there is anything wrong with being gay

4) I also don’t like killing animals. I have no problem with bugs though and have been known to overuse pesticides.

5) Yes, I’m a shooter although haven’t shot in months because ammo is so expensive. Friggin’ Chinese are killing my hobby.