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Hang together

Or you know.

In light of comments here regarding NRA and gun rights and who is doing more and selling out and what not, listen up:

There are all kinds of us gun nuts. And we don’t all agree on everything. I don’t agree with Pro Gun Progressive on many issues because I’m not generally a liberal. I don’t agree with Clayton Cramer on most things involving homosexuality. I don’t agree with Kim du Toit on the virtues of the 1911. I don’t agree with a lot of gun blogs right-wing cheer leading. But I do agree with them about the gun issue.

I am much more gun nut than a lot of folks. You could say that I’m more GOA than NRA when it comes down to the issues. But here’s the deal: the NRA is the 800lb gorilla when it comes to guns. And they are effective. Sure, I (and you) have had issues with them. And I’ve criticized the hell out of them. A lot. But they still have my support. Just like the aforementioned bloggers who I may not generally agree with. So, let’s not start poo-pooing the NRA because they’re getting into the new media game. Yes, we can raise legitimate concerns about them and criticize them at length. But if there is a rift in the pro-gun community, it hurts us all. You can cheer lead the GOA or JPFO all you like. But they’re not very effective at, err, much. Even though I’m more inclined to agree with GOA.

Yes, the NRA compromises by having their attorney seemingly argue that he wants registration. But that is incidental to the big picture which is that a case is going to the Supreme Court. A winnable case, even. And it’s going to take small steps for the long term victory. Small victories add up, such as the recent adoption of CCW laws in the vast majority of states.

Remember, if you drive a truck in ten miles, it’s still ten miles to get out.

Like Sebastian said a bit back:

To me the NRA is like an annoying little brother; he sure does annoy you sometimes, and you wish he wouldnít go off and get himself into trouble that you felt compelled to get him out of. But when the chips are down, family is family, and you do what you have to do.

Update: And don’t take this post to mean that I (or you) should constantly be affirming NRA with perpetual rah rah rah go team fight eagerness. Rather, remain critical when warranted but try not to be openly hostile. We’re winning and we should keep it that way.

16 Responses to “Hang together”

  1. Justin Buist Says:

    Yes, the NRA compromises by having their attorney seemingly argue that he wants registration. But that is incidental to the big picture which is that a case is going to the Supreme Court. A winnable case, even.

    Wait, I’m confused. Are you referring to Heller v. DC there? The NRA had nothing to do with that case. Well, aside from trying to torpedo it. Is there another one going to the courts that the NRA had a hand in?

  2. gattsuru Says:

    NRA funded a couple lawyer types to go tap along with it, the most notable being Mr. Stephen Halbrook. Probably a good bet, given his success rate (at least 4-0 at the SCOTUS) and understanding of constitutional law, except they sent him visibly attached at the hip to the NRA, and he’s apparently got to argue that anything but a complete ban would be a reasonable restriction.

    And, yes, there were issues with him trying to torpedo it while Seegars was still under way before later joining with the Parker plaintiffs. I dunno if I can blame the NRA for that one, since I can’t understand their reasoning.

  3. gattsuru Says:

    But that is incidental to the big picture which is that a case is going to the Supreme Court. A winnable case, even.

    By which point the case will cover only complete bans on handguns in any circumstance. Boy, that’ll help us a lot, when public opinion holds complete bans on handguns effectively impossible outside of the very worst of liberal meccas.

    . You could say that Iím more GOA than NRA when it comes down to the issues. But hereís the deal: the NRA is the 800lb gorilla when it comes to guns.

    We make a lot of fun at the expense of the ponzi scheme that is the Joyce Foundation, but it obviously must have some advantages. Despite their massive, massive issues with corruption and facts, they’ve done a hell of a lot of damage. Like the hydra, that sorta thing makes it very hard to take down any one group for long — and it means that the Joyce Foundation can simultaneously provide “compromises” like ASHA without ‘advocacy’ for the ownership of some rifles biting the VPC in the ass.

    The NRA is the 800lb gorilla, to argue any other way would be ridiculous. It gets dues from 3 million people, and an additional 30 million will claim to be a part of it. When it pushes, people pay attention.

    That’s not always helping us. The NRA means all gun owners. The NRA means extremism in the defense of liberty, far from a virtue these days. The NRA means fighting on dozens of fronts simultaneously, and it means that attacks on one group might as well be attacks on all.

  4. SayUncle Says:

    Boy, thatíll help us a lot, when public opinion holds complete bans on handguns effectively impossible outside of the very worst of liberal meccas.

    How could it not help?

  5. gattsuru Says:

    How could it not help?

    When it legitimizes every registration scheme? It’s a bit hard to argue against that sorta stuff when it’s considered a reasonable restriction by the supreme law of the land — even with how stupid, expensive, and nonfuctional they are, people seem to instinctively like them.

  6. SayUncle Says:

    When it legitimizes every registration scheme?

    I disagree. I don’t think Halbrook’s position in this case is indicative of endorsing such a scheme. He has a task to focus on now. And that’s the task.

  7. Rob K Says:

    My take on it is that we are an army. The NRA makes up the bulk of the army – the infantry. JPFO and GOA are like advanced scouts and rangers. They blaze the trail that the infantry follows. They put out the ideas of open carry everywhere, getting guns back into schools (in the form of rifle teams and armed teachers), repealing the NFA, etc. They blaze those trails so the NRA can follow, taking the ground, and building a road.

    Not every grunt can be an Airborne Ranger, but they can contribute 30$ a year.

  8. Call me Ahab » Blog Archive » Uncle lays it out Says:

    […] Read it here. This entry was posted on Monday, September 17th, 2007 at 9:47 am and is filed under blogs. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. […]

  9. nope Says:

    You talk about hanging separately, than go on to claim “we are winning” and should stick together.

    Are the hundreds of thousands of denied gun owners based on the jurisdiction they live in not doing just that… hanging separately? Or do you consider them spending their entire life, thus far, denied gun-ownership “winning”? Every time a gun edict is forced upon them, either leaving them disarmed in the face of criminals or arrested by police for daring to exercise a basic human right, I don’t think they feel like they are “winners” like you.

    They have most certainly have been left to hang. All while your 800lb gorilla, who is compared to “the annoying little brother”???, is actively calling for these fellow gun owners to be disarmed or/and die, NRA – “Enforce the gun laws already on the books.”

    This doesn’t even start to include the innocent lives lost DIRECTLY CAUSED* by NRA sponsored defenseless victim zones. ( * You are the one calling them “effective”. At what, I ask?)

    When you claim “we are winning” YOU have left hundreds of dead, denied, and imprisoned gun-owners to hang separately, thereby guaranteeing all our future.

    The NRA had nothing to do with the fact a “winnable case” is going before the supreme court, (except to say the NRA sponsored the denial of the basic human right in the first place).

  10. SayUncle Says:

    Nope,

    We are winning. But it is a slow process. Compare CCW states today to what they were 10, 15, 20 years ago. no more AWB. JD confirms the proper interpretation of the 2A. Castle doctrine laws There’s a host of other victories. And they are small. But we’re trending in the right direction.

    Yes, there are certain demographic areas where they are all but a lost cause. And one of those fights is occurring now with Parker/Heller. Heck, even Illinois counties are recognizing the proper interpretation of the 2A even though Chicago with its massive population keeps getting more gun controls.

    Regarding those localities, as I said, if you drive a truck in ten miles, itís still ten miles to get out. It won’t happen over night.

    At what, I ask?

    See list above. And there’s plenty more.

  11. blackfork Says:

    Just make sure you put MONEY somewhere in the fight. Don’t just sit around and bitch. No freeloading.

    I’m an NRA life and TSRA Endowment member.

    All NRA Competitive shooters have to maintain an NRA membership.

  12. gattsuru Says:

    I disagree. I donít think Halbrookís position in this case is indicative of endorsing such a scheme. He has a task to focus on now. And thatís the task.

    The appeals courts did not see your viewpoint. Nor do I expect the SCOTUS to do so. Bitter, Sebastian, and Xrlq’s argument relied on the District court to not only interpret it as such, but that such an interpretation was necessary for any chance of the right to be recognized — and I did not contest that.

    Please, tell me after Parker we’ll be assured incorporation, and near-bans throughout the country will go up in smoke, followed by any law that puts discrimination and bigotry into firearms law. Tell me that we’ll see federal laws that take away rights without a conviction or due process or at extreme taxes.

    I’d love to believe that.

  13. gattsuru Says:

    Just make sure you put MONEY somewhere in the fight. Donít just sit around and bitch. No freeloading.

    Quoted for truth. We can’t afford to have a lot of talkers and nothing being done. If you don’t like the NRA, the GOA and JPFO are there. If you think they’re all ineffective, give to individual groups — Reds, the Parker group, anything.

  14. Xrlq Says:

    The appeals courts did not see your viewpoint. Nor do I expect the SCOTUS to do so.

    Nor is it their job to. Their job is to decide the case that is before them right now. The rest can wait until Parker II, at which point it wouldn’t even matter if your ridiculous claims about Stephen Halbrook endorsing carry bans were true. Once Parker/Heller has been finally adjudicated, the only precedent that will matter is the court’s own ruling, not what either party to the case argued for, let alone what gattsuru thinks they argued for.

  15. gattsuru Says:

    Really, Xrlq?

    When Parker I goes to the SCOTUS, they’re going to ignore every facts placed before them from the district court but the ones regarding the current law at question, and their decision won’t cite any of it. Just like how Lawrence didn’t comment on anything but homosexual sodomy.

    Pull the other one — it’s got bells on.

  16. Xrlq Says:

    Of course the SCOTUS’s decision won’t ignore the facts before it. What does that have to do with the fact that Halbrook correctly noted that they can rule in his client’s favor without tackling all the other gun control issues (yet)?

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