Tennessean Publishes “Steal Me” List
Following in the footsteps of a mental midget like Christian Trejbal, The Tennessean has decided to publish a searchable database of Concealed Carry Weapons permit holders in Tennessee. It is here. So, now thieves and would be robbers can search, by city, and find places to go steal guns. When this happened in Virginia, the paper took the list down, apologized and the legislature proposed a bill making the info private. And the AG went ahead and made it private.
Other than sensational grandstanding, letting criminals know where to steal guns, knowing it will create a buzz, and the upcoming martyr shtick they’ll pull (we were just exercising our first amendment rights!), what is the purpose of doing such a thing?
If, like me, you’re not happy about it, let them know. Here’s their contact page.
Update: I will be contacting their advertisers (like Dillards).
Update 2: Maybe some enterprising blogger could start looking for DUIs, unpaid property taxes, legal proceedings, and other stuff having to do with Tennessean staffers? It’s all public info and, well by golly, we have a right to know.
Update 3: For fun, I searched the database for names of prominent political figures. In most cases, I got no results. However, I was in there multiple times.
Update 4: Some folks are saying that it is dumb to think that criminals would use a list like this to go steal guns. They don’t use lists? Why all the identity theft? And over 80% of crime guns are either stolen or come from the black market.
These folks say I should stick with privacy concerns. I thought that was pretty evident that this violated privacy. So, yeah, I don’t like having such info published in the paper. I think it serves no purpose. And, of course, any nefarious sorts can use the list to find out who does not have a carry permit as well.
Update 5: Here’s their article on CCW. You can leave a comment at the Tennessean here.
Update 6: Steve Gill says:
I bet they would freak out if we used the voter rolls and other public data to publish the home addresses of their reporters and editorial staff. After all, there are some nutcases who might try to do them harm if they knew where they lived and didn’t like what they wrote in their paper. But that would be irresponsible, wouldn’t it?????
And, you know, the info from the drivers license database is equally accessible.
Via insty.
Update 7: Seems The Tennessean’s list of CCW holders is now gone. It was here earlier. Could just be down, I suppose.
Update 8: Confirmed . The Tennessean has pulled it. Good for them. Good job, Blake!
May 8th, 2007 at 10:07 am
[...] They did it in Virginia a few months ago, now they are doing it in Tennessee now too. [...]
May 8th, 2007 at 10:14 am
Keep in mind that this also allows people to search for who *isn’t* on that list.
One politician pointed out that because he wasn’t on the list in the other state, anyone who has issues with him (and is unstable) will know that he has nothing to protect himself – thereby placing him and his family in greater danger than they were before the information was published.
If you **really** (and I mean *really*) want to drive the point home, find some very public person and search for them on the list. If you don’t find them, send them a quick note explaining this.
I’m sure the publisher doesn’t carry.
And I’m sure there are politicians that don’t carry.
Does the AG? Does his wife?
These are all public people who can be targeted now that a potential criminal *knows* they carry no firearm to protect themselves.
(I’m not a very nice person – I go for the throat and I go hard. I’ve found it’s the best way to stomp out stupidity.)
May 8th, 2007 at 10:21 am
While they are at it, how about listing all the illegal aliens and people with AIDS. It sure would be helpful.
May 8th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Has the Tennessean offered any explanation for why they’re doing this? I can’t wait to hear the reasoning.
May 8th, 2007 at 10:30 am
Another reason why Vermont has it right when it comes to permits.
This is beyond idiodic on the part of the Tennessean. Are they that far out of touch that they didn’t see what happened when other papers have pulled this stunt?
May 8th, 2007 at 10:32 am
While they are at it, how about listing all the illegal aliens and people with AIDS. It sure would be helpful.
What an interesting couple of equivalencies you pulled out of thin air Karen. So AIDS and illegal aliens are what people who you consider yourself against to be hiding?
Hope you aren’t on that list.
Tom
May 8th, 2007 at 10:51 am
I called the Tenn Department of Public Safety….apparently anyone who submits a reason in writing and pays a fee can do this.
Good news is that it is that the Driver Liscense database with all the personal information is available also under the same process. I would suggest a tip jar for the fee and to search on Meg Downey, editor first.
May 8th, 2007 at 10:51 am
Um, I won’t contest your point (I happen to agree), but c’mon, criminals aren’t that smart to be using an online database to scout houses to hit for guns.
I’ll bet one example can’t be found, anywhere, that thieves are using any kind of publicly available database for nefarious purposes.
BTW, is it considered hypocritical when someone who proclaims “information must be free” criticize another for making information, um, free?
May 8th, 2007 at 10:51 am
So who exactly do we contact about this? I’ve called the main number three times and have been transferred to six different voicemails, every ‘real’ person I’ve talked to has no idea of what’s going on and transfers me…to another voicemail.
May 8th, 2007 at 10:54 am
“Um, I wont contest your point (I happen to agree), but cmon, criminals arent that smart to be using an online database to scout houses to hit for guns.”
Bill, if I were to decide to “turn” tomorrow, I now have a data source.
Criminals come from all walks of life, and though it’s not a normal distribution, from all levels of intelligence. It may not be for theft, it may be for kidnapping, for coersion, rape, stalking… in any number of walks of higher crimes it might just be a darned handy thing to know if someone carries or not.
May 8th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Tom: aliens are what people who you consider yourself against to be hiding?
I’m impressed. You have to have at least three years of post-graduate studies to be able to write like that.
May 8th, 2007 at 10:59 am
I’m no expert but there’s an awful lot of identity theft.
May 8th, 2007 at 10:59 am
Bill,
I remember a case where a database was published and shortly thereafter a shop owner who had a permit had some criminals come in and started shooting first before committing the robbery. It was odd timing for such a shooting that hadn’t occurred in that area before. I remember it being tied to the publishing of names. Anyone know what event I’m talking about because I can’t remember the details?
May 8th, 2007 at 11:01 am
blake, i think that was in Ohio but my google-fu is weak.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:09 am
It would seem to me that rather than have the database tell the bad guys where to go to steall guns, it’s more likely that it could be used to tell the crooks who’s unarmed, as Jon pointed out.
If your name is not on the list, you are shown to be more defenseless. So, would that not spur some people to get on the list? It could have the opposite effect the newspaper wants it to have, which is to promote the carrying of concealed weapons.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:11 am
There should be a State Law against publishing this information. This is outrageous.
I am now looking at 575 people in Knoxville and 156 people in Maryville that have CCW permits. Considering how devastating Identity Theft is and how crazy the antigunners are, is it reasonable to think that some of these people listed are going to be harassed?
Simple question, would a list of people with genital warts be published? Of course not. It would be a violation of privacy.
This is as stupid as publishing a list of people who have sworn out orders of protection.
What purpose other than harassment is accomplished by publishing this list on the Internet? This is an egregious violation of privacy rights.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:13 am
In the 1950s, when Oklahoma still clung to Prohibition, occasionally the big newspapers would piously publish lists of persons who held Federal liquor licenses despite living in a dry state. (State and local law enforcement was just a nuisance to bootleggers, but the feds were tough on unlicensed sellers.) Thirsty citizens and bootleggers liked those “exposes”s because they provided a handy directory of where an illicit bottle could be purchased.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:13 am
I have little concern whether the state publishes or does not publish a list of those with permits to have concealed guns, but to suggest that a thief sits about reading such lists in order to steal a gun is just plain DUMB. It is so easy to get guns, legal or otherwise,so why would a crook bother to scout lists and drive all around. Make a case for privacy, if you will, but please: cut the stupidity
May 8th, 2007 at 11:15 am
One thing us older guys forget, kids have grown up on the Internet. It’s second nature to them.
If they knew that database was available, they’d make a game of searching people they know (like the Shelby county Arrest Warrant page).
Sooner or later, someone with a criminal mind would see this as a huge opportunity.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Yeah, I mean, nobody is smart enough to figure out that, to get guns, you go where they are.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:18 am
“blake, i think that was in Ohio but my google-fu is weak.” Here it is:
link
May 8th, 2007 at 11:32 am
[...] SayUncle » Tennessean Publishes “Steal Me” List Following in the footsteps of a mental midget like Christian Trejbal, The Tennessean has decided to publish a searchable database of Concealed Carry Weapons permit holders in Tennessee. It is here. So, now thieves and would be robbers can search, by city, and find places to go steal guns. When this happened in Virginia, the paper took the list down, apologized and the legislature proposed a bill making the info private. And the AG went ahead and made it private. [...]
May 8th, 2007 at 11:32 am
I dunno about TN, but here in AZ the county assessor’s records of land ownership and value are online. If TN has the same you could get it for the paper’s leadership. (If not, you might have to make a trip to the assessor’s office).
May 8th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Here is what WILL happen.
Anti-gun employers are going to use this to hunt down gun owning employees and fire them.
I guarantee this.
I reccomend we retaliate by using public records to attack newspaper staff.
Every land transaction. Every lawsuit. Every [arking ticket. Every stain on criminal history. Every divorce or child custody battle. Plus home adresses and telephone numbers.
Payback is a mofo.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:37 am
Does anyone else smell the odor of Bloomberg? It took a lot of work to make this list accessible on the Internet. Who wanted this done and for what purpose? Is this support for Bloomberg? Bredesen? Haslam? Why would any paper in Tennessee do this?
I think there is more to this than meets the eye.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Tennessean has disabled their contact page. ETA: It is back.
May 8th, 2007 at 11:40 am
And here it is:
http://www.tennesseetrustee.com/index.cgi?BISKIT=180881436&CONTEXT=art&cat=10000&art=27
May 8th, 2007 at 11:45 am
You know, property tax records showing home addresses and tax assessments are also public information. The editor’s name is Mark Silverman.
http://www.assessment.state.tn.us/
Some enterprising soul might uncover the names of the other board members involved in their decision to publish Tennessean’s private information.
(I have a funny story about a genius who published someone’s home address WHILE HE HAD PROPERTY TAXES IN ARREARS. Long story short, bad idea if you like keeping your house.)
May 8th, 2007 at 11:57 am
The Connecticut Post (www.connpost.com) in Bridgeport, CT is trying to do the same stunt. So far a state law has prevented it.
Funny how all these papers seemed to get the same idea at the same time.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Somebody at the Tennessean left this comment. i thought it was a joke at first:
May 8th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Let’s publish a list of everyone who owns a camera or video phone because since we know that guns kill people, cameras cause pornography. But don’t stop there. Publish the names of all people with key boards, because key boards are responsible for hate speech. What about cars? We need to know the name of everyone who owns a vehicle because so many people are killed in auto accidents every year. How about the names of all the fast food franchise owners? Too much fast food creates heart attacks.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
I believe as a college student that I would feel safer by packing a non-lethal rubber door wedge (that you can purchase two door wedges for about $1.00 at harbor Freight) that could be used by either students, staff, or faculty in an emergency to quickly wedge a student classroom, faculty office, or student dorm room door secure from an intruder.
Genius. Pure genius.
If you hit someone in the head with a rubber door wedge you will certainly take them out. Aim for the temple or the eyes.
If only one person at Virgina Tech had a rubber door wedge, how many lives could have been saved?
May 8th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Blake, Uncle,
I know zip about your shop owner situation, but it wouldn’t surprise me. However, the true danger in list revelation comes from your friends and neighbors. According to Massad Ayoob (The Truth About Self Defense, etc.) concealed carry means concealed from everyone at all times, including any knowledge that you carry. In a situation, and like a drowning person pulling their rescuer under, anyone who knows you carry will immediately demand that you shoot, or otherwise “finger” you. You then become an immediate target for the perp.
The Liberal does not care who is attacked, maimed, or dies as long as their feelings are not violated. Too bad they can’t seem to be made to pay directly.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Bill, not sure if this would classify as a database, but crooks have been using Obituaries for decades. Either by showing up and presenting a bill for something the deceased had ordered, (bad enough) or whats worse, finding out the date and time of the funeral and robbing the house while everybody was away.
J.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I bet they would freak out if we used the voter rolls and other public data to publish the home addresses of their reporters and editorial staff. After all, there are some nutcases who might try to do them harm if they knew where they lived and didnt like what they wrote in their paper. But that would be irresponsible, wouldnt it?????
Ah voter rolls. Good idea.
I have looked at Davidson county and all surrounding counties to find out where the Tennessean Publisher Ellen Leifeld and Editor Mark Silverman live so as a public service I could post that information. But alas, they both appear to be renters as I could not find them in any of the local Nashville counties.
What do you want to bet they don’t vote? And people wonder why the circulation of the Tennessean has declined.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Yup, time to call some advertisers.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
“Staff writer” isn’t in the database.
One would infer that she is completely defenseless when away from home.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Also time to call your state Rep.
Let’s get the ball rolling on legislation to stop this from happening again.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
[...] December 2002 November 2002 October 2002 September 2002 August 2002 « « Tennessean Publishes “Steal Me” List | Home [...]
May 8th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Did you see this quote at the end of the article?
Wonder what “bear arms” means in Shevll?
May 8th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Dang markup.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Lets call the two men responsible for recently passing pro-CCW friendly legislation allowing CCW in State Parks:
Sen Tim Burchett 615 741 1766
Rep Frank Niceley 615 741 4419
Make a suggestion that they pass an emergency bill to restrict public acess to CCW records, with exception of criminal acts i.e. if I commit a crime and have a CCW they can publish that. Otherwise, hands off.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I see the Tennessean has changed things and the link no longer goes to the date search page.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
I’m not so much worried about criminals accessing these databases as I am about potential employers. We have all seen recently how anti-gun businesses will fire any employee who expresses even an interest in the shooting sports.
What will happen is that these companies will search for your name in this database and you will not get that dream job. Or potentially, be fired from that dream job. I wonder if these databases come up in a google search of your name. If so, when your potential employer googles your name and finds out about your carry permit, guess what, no job offer.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
“So AIDS and illegal aliens are what people who you consider yourself against to be hiding?”
Tom, I can’t quite parse your twisted syntax, but I do get the impression that you are in oposition to Karen. While I understand the impracticality of both suggestions, I think, from a public safety perspective, more lives would be saved from publishing a searchable HIV+ database than a CCW database. At least the former would be created with a specific purpose and clearly understood way to use (i.e. if your date’s name pops up on the list you can make a more informed decission concerning post-dinner activities).
May 8th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Buster, it’s still there . . . just slow.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Not to change the subject too much from the outrage:
But we need to hold this as why “registration” is not a neutral term.
If there is a government database, it can and will be abused. Anyone who cannot concede that as a virtual certainty should not be advising/suggesting/demanding systematic legal changes.
May 8th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
[...] First and Second Amendment website Say Uncle has taken the lead in challenging the decision of the Editor and Publisher of the Tennessean to [...]
May 8th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Either it is really slow because of the number of hits on the Tennessean web server, or the database link has been pulled.
Think the advertisers made a phone call?
May 8th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Update:
Still there. Just slow.
Time to contact Dillard’s.
In the meantime, check out the Mission Statement from the Tennessean:
I guess we may differ on what “essential news, responsible ideas, diverse opinions, and timely advice” really means.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
While I’m not a lawyer, and don’t give out legal advice, I will note that there are some states that issue permits to nonresidents — Utah’s permit is accepted in more than two dozen states — and don’t give out permit holder data except to proper inquiry from law enforcement.
And while I’m not giving advice — see above — it’s worth noting that, in at least some states, that out-of-state permit will be honored. In my own Minnesota, for example, it’s an open secret that rather than hassle with Sheriff Fletcher of Ramsey County — we’re a “shall issue” state, but even in such states, one does run into the issue of “just how much justice can you afford” — at least some residents of Ramsey County MN simply get their Utah permit, and never have to bother with the local authorities. The same is true, I’ve heard, in St. Louis County MO — they’ve got a problem sheriff, and instead of go through hassles there, many erstwhile permit holders simply get a Utah or Florida permit.
May 8th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
I contacted Dillard’s. They seemed uninterested, even irritated. I was not rude to them. I was, however, quite curt (even a bit profane) when I contacted the Tennesseean.
For those of you who accuse us of being alarmist, ask yourself why the Tennesseean even published this information. If you’re honest, you’ll not be able to come up with one decent reason for their behavior. This is nothing but “outing,” not entirely different than creating a list of homosexuals, child molesters, etc. It’s an attempt to intimidate or somehow “embarrass” those of us who have acted perfectly within the law. It may be legal, but it’s incredibly immature, irresponsible, catty, and unprofessional.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
[...] The Tennessean’s list of CCW holders is now gone. It was here [...]
May 8th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Bill Peschel Says:
May 8th, 2007 at 10:51 am
Um, I wont contest your point (I happen to agree), but cmon, criminals arent that smart to be using an online database to scout houses to hit for guns
Bill P., at the time my father enlisted in the Army during WWII he had the highest IQ ever recorded in this country. Since that time many have surpassed him, but at that time he was the top. He was also a career criminal after the war. Don’t tell me that some of them are not smart enough to use a database.
I find that those without the imagination to conceive of it to be far less intelligent. Don’t be one of them.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Er…just as a note for all those who think that criminals aren’t “smart enough” to use a database like this for nefarious purposes, THINK AGAIN. Do *not* underestimate a criminal. Especially a younger one who has grown up with the Internet (and Google!). Imagine what a con man or identity thief could do with this information. I don’t *know* what they could do, but imagine away – they’re probably imagining too!
Plus you have stalkers and the ilk, and organized crime folks. I repeat, do *not* underestimate thy enemy!
May 8th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
The Tennessean knew what it was doing. The same thing other papers have done. Publish a searchable list of those “evil gun owners”, bend em over and give ‘em a good reaming. Then remove the list and say “sorry it was all a mistake”. Bull! They did it on purpose just like all the other papers that have pulled this same stunt. The damage has been done. It’s time for some serious payback on these A-Holes! Uncle made some good suggestions. Let’s follow through this time guys and gals. I for one don’t have a subscription to cancel but I will find out who their advertisers are and will never shop at any of them again. Let’s also find out the dirt on some of the Tennessean’s editors and staff and start pushing that info out their. See how the bastards like a taste.
May 8th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
[...] Say Uncle: Following in the footsteps of a mental midget like Christian Trejbal, The Tennessean has decided to publish a searchable database of Concealed Carry Weapons permit holders in Tennessee. It is here. So, now thieves and would be robbers can search, by city, and find places to go steal guns. When this happened in Virginia, the paper took the list down, apologized and the legislature proposed a bill making the info private. And the AG went ahead and made it private. [...]
May 8th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Just a few years back, didn’t a militant anti-abortion group publish on a website the names and addresses of doctors in their area who performed abortions? IIRC, some of those doctors started getting harrassed as a result. How is this any different?
May 8th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
I am a 65 year old grandmother, with a gun permit for 10 years or more. Just let the theives try to pry my weapon from my knobby little arthritic hands.
May 9th, 2007 at 7:41 am
[...] number of folks have take the Tennessean to task for what they call a “steal me” list, [...]
May 9th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
[...] told that we are the same as sex offenders and that databases should be made available just as with sex offenders. We have to get licenses to bear the arms to for which we have a right to bear. This is analigous [...]
May 9th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
[...] intrusive, but I didn’t see the same kind of threat some Gunners did. Uncle, for instance, pointed out that the list basically gave crooks a list of potential targets for gun theft. Odd, because I saw it exactly the opposite way: here’s a list of people I wouldn’t [...]
May 9th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
This whole debacle has motivated me to do two things that I should have done a long time ago: cancel my subscription to The Tennessean and finally join the NRA. News is cheap and available everywhere; no reason to feel stuck with a slanted rag with lousy writing. And with the money I’ll save, joining the NRA really won’t cost me a thing.
May 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Thank you for allowing my boss, friends and relatives, who had now idea I ever owned a gun or possessed a permit know my personal business. As I am enveloped in a work environment that feeds on rumors and the “latest news,” it has been made aware to my boss and co-workers that I carry a handgun. In what I feel was a response to, today, my boss pulled me aside for friendly conversation which seemed to turn into a counseling session attempted to make clear that guns are not permitted on the premise, including the parking lot. I was given that information during orientation and immediately felt belittled. It may be me but it also seems my coworkers aren’t as relaxed in conversation with me today. Do they view me as some kind of loose cannon, ready to go off? I’m angry, hurt, saddened. I had no idea my permit was public record. I just thought I would do what I felt was necessary to protect my family and myself from extreme danger and harm. I live in a pretty quiet neighborhood now but the one I moved from isn’t so nice. I’ve lived most of my life in “the rough part of town”, USA. I don’t have to get into detail about the trouble I’ve seen but those things are the driving force for my permit. OH! ….to answer some questions about criminals and computers….. silly….the internet is accessible to almost everyone…….all criminals aren’t high school dropouts….. a vacuum for a certain type of crime has been created when the data base was made known……most home burglary happens when you aren’t home, i.e., not htere to protect any of your stuff, which for some, includes the other guns they don’t carry with them. I’m assuming that none of these things were thought of before the ink hit the paper. I hope the Tennesseean goes broke! God Bless!
May 10th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Dang it, late to the party again. Did not even get to check and see if I am in there.
May 13th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Bob1: It is no different. And it would be no different from publishing the names and addresses of those who are HIV+. I suspect that database would be used for checking on dates a few times, sure. But it would be used a heck of a lot more by those who would harrass the HIV+ person, or worse.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:40 am
[...] like to thank you, The Tennessean, personally for the fact that soon handgun carry permit records will likely be [...]