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	<title>Comments on: Akins Accelerator Update</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/</link>
	<description>Remember, I do this to entertain me... not you.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: triticale</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164865</link>
		<dc:creator>triticale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Feb 2007 02:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164865</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure most double barreled shotguns have a sequence interlock to prevent firing both at once.

I&#039;m also pretty sure that the Colt potato-digger machine gun was a gas operated conversion of a lever-action rifle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure most double barreled shotguns have a sequence interlock to prevent firing both at once.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also pretty sure that the Colt potato-digger machine gun was a gas operated conversion of a lever-action rifle.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164837</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 01:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164837</guid>
		<description>What about those side by side shotguns with two triggers; one for each barrel?  You could fire two rounds simulateously with one pull of the trigger finger, correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about those side by side shotguns with two triggers; one for each barrel?  You could fire two rounds simulateously with one pull of the trigger finger, correct?</p>
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		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164834</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 00:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164834</guid>
		<description>Uncle,

Re Maxim-Winchester:  I have in &quot;The Book of Rifles&quot; by Smith and Smith.  If I can get my wife to scan it for me, I will e-mail it to you.  Might take a couple of days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uncle,</p>
<p>Re Maxim-Winchester:  I have in &#8220;The Book of Rifles&#8221; by Smith and Smith.  If I can get my wife to scan it for me, I will e-mail it to you.  Might take a couple of days.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: straightarrow</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164831</link>
		<dc:creator>straightarrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 21:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164831</guid>
		<description>I suppose then they won&#039;t mind if I display the finger next to the trigger finger.  Consider it done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose then they won&#8217;t mind if I display the finger next to the trigger finger.  Consider it done.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: beerslurpy</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164827</link>
		<dc:creator>beerslurpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 21:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164827</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They can’t redefine it to be the trigger finger because&lt;/blockquote&gt;

they aren&#039;t congress</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They can’t redefine it to be the trigger finger because</p></blockquote>
<p>they aren&#8217;t congress</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: beerslurpy</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164826</link>
		<dc:creator>beerslurpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 21:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164826</guid>
		<description>There is no way for the ATF to ban the akins accelerator without banning semiautos but only applying the administrative rule extremely selectively to ban semiautos that they feel bump fire too easily. 

However, this creates two problems.

1) it ignores the human element in all bump firing designs. Remember that when you fully depress the trigger on an akins accelerator, it doesnt fire full auto- you have to pull the trigger in just the right way to allow the receiver to recoil and the trigger to leave your finger and reset. This is different from a machine gun that simply repeats with nothing more than a trigger pull, regardless of how hard the trigger is depressed. It will only fire rapidly in the hands of a user that knows how to do more than pull the trigger. How do we determine if the user possesses that knowledge? 

2) Ignoring the human behavioral element in bumpfiring creates problems with the scienter requirement of 922(o). The crime of possessing machine guns (18 USC 922(o)) requires that one be aware of the characteristics that make it a machine gun. US v Staples 511 US 600 (1994) Possessing guns that can be bump-fired is a fundamentally innocent act, as this is a characteristic of nearly all legal semiautomatic weapons. Assuming that the ATF can adopt some sort of test that creates a threshhold beyond which a semiauto becomes to easy to bump-fire and thus a machine gun, how can an ordinary gun owner be aware of when a gun has crossed this line? Additionally, a bump-fireable &quot;machine gun&quot; only becomes a machine gun when its otherwise innocent functioning is combined with a certain mode of user operation- in other words, the gun appears to be a normal semiauto until the user picks it up and applies his special knowledge of bump firing to operating the weapon. Unless you catch the defendant bump-firing a gun that you have already declared to be a &quot;bump firing machine gun&quot; how can he be said to &quot;knowingly possess&quot; a machine gun? If he didnt know how to hold the gun or precisely how to press the trigger, how could he know it possessed the characteristics of a machine gun? And even if he possessed that knowledge, what differentiates something like an akins accelreator from any other 10/22 with a loose stock or a gun owner who holds the gun loosely?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no way for the ATF to ban the akins accelerator without banning semiautos but only applying the administrative rule extremely selectively to ban semiautos that they feel bump fire too easily. </p>
<p>However, this creates two problems.</p>
<p>1) it ignores the human element in all bump firing designs. Remember that when you fully depress the trigger on an akins accelerator, it doesnt fire full auto- you have to pull the trigger in just the right way to allow the receiver to recoil and the trigger to leave your finger and reset. This is different from a machine gun that simply repeats with nothing more than a trigger pull, regardless of how hard the trigger is depressed. It will only fire rapidly in the hands of a user that knows how to do more than pull the trigger. How do we determine if the user possesses that knowledge? </p>
<p>2) Ignoring the human behavioral element in bumpfiring creates problems with the scienter requirement of 922(o). The crime of possessing machine guns (18 USC 922(o)) requires that one be aware of the characteristics that make it a machine gun. US v Staples 511 US 600 (1994) Possessing guns that can be bump-fired is a fundamentally innocent act, as this is a characteristic of nearly all legal semiautomatic weapons. Assuming that the ATF can adopt some sort of test that creates a threshhold beyond which a semiauto becomes to easy to bump-fire and thus a machine gun, how can an ordinary gun owner be aware of when a gun has crossed this line? Additionally, a bump-fireable &#8220;machine gun&#8221; only becomes a machine gun when its otherwise innocent functioning is combined with a certain mode of user operation- in other words, the gun appears to be a normal semiauto until the user picks it up and applies his special knowledge of bump firing to operating the weapon. Unless you catch the defendant bump-firing a gun that you have already declared to be a &#8220;bump firing machine gun&#8221; how can he be said to &#8220;knowingly possess&#8221; a machine gun? If he didnt know how to hold the gun or precisely how to press the trigger, how could he know it possessed the characteristics of a machine gun? And even if he possessed that knowledge, what differentiates something like an akins accelreator from any other 10/22 with a loose stock or a gun owner who holds the gun loosely?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Justin Buist</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164824</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Buist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164824</guid>
		<description>They can&#039;t redefine it to be the trigger &lt;i&gt;finger&lt;/i&gt; because that would outlaw any semi-auto that could be bump fired.  I suspect, if anything, it&#039;ll be redefined as a single function of the operator.  That&#039;d be the distinction between the Akins Accelerator and bump firing -- the Akins product recycles the recoil energy while in bump firing energy is added to the system by the operator.

Of course, I suppose one &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; construct a simple device that would hold the weapon steady, but free-floating along the bore axis, at a downward angle.  Introduction of a finger and pull on the trigger would allow the entire weapon to climb upward and then gravity would push it back down onto the trigger finger, consequently firing it again.

While practically useless, it would be doing the equivalent of the Akins Accelerator sans the spring that the ATF wants turned in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They can&#8217;t redefine it to be the trigger <i>finger</i> because that would outlaw any semi-auto that could be bump fired.  I suspect, if anything, it&#8217;ll be redefined as a single function of the operator.  That&#8217;d be the distinction between the Akins Accelerator and bump firing &#8212; the Akins product recycles the recoil energy while in bump firing energy is added to the system by the operator.</p>
<p>Of course, I suppose one <i>could</i> construct a simple device that would hold the weapon steady, but free-floating along the bore axis, at a downward angle.  Introduction of a finger and pull on the trigger would allow the entire weapon to climb upward and then gravity would push it back down onto the trigger finger, consequently firing it again.</p>
<p>While practically useless, it would be doing the equivalent of the Akins Accelerator sans the spring that the ATF wants turned in.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SayUncle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164821</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164821</guid>
		<description>Did not know that. I&#039;d like to see how that works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did not know that. I&#8217;d like to see how that works.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164819</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164819</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry.  Not bump fired, bump cycled.  The bump actuated the lever, not the trigger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry.  Not bump fired, bump cycled.  The bump actuated the lever, not the trigger.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164818</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/02/09/akins_accelerator_update-3/#comment-164818</guid>
		<description>Did you know that Hiram Maxim the inventor of the machine gun, converted a lever action Winchester into a bump fired semi-auto as his first experiment?  He used a spring-loaded butt-plate and extra toggles on the lever for a shorter stroke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you know that Hiram Maxim the inventor of the machine gun, converted a lever action Winchester into a bump fired semi-auto as his first experiment?  He used a spring-loaded butt-plate and extra toggles on the lever for a shorter stroke.</p>
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