And yet you still haven’t given me a single example of where your alternative has ever worked.

I guess I didn’t realize that Standard Oil was a government-created monopoly.

All sorts of governmental regulation(including environmental) are an enormous handout to giant corporations. Yes, really. They raise the cost of doing business for all businesses, which is a giant sword to the guts of the small competitors. Why do you think pharmaceuticals arent clamoring to do away with the FDA? Because the FDA protects them from competition by adding millions of dollars and many years to the cost of developing even the simplest drug.

Do you see halliburton fighting to destroy the EPA? No, of course not. Small competitors dont have an army of compliance specialists handle the paperwork and the waiting for projects.

Do you see gun stores fighting to destroy the FFL system? No, because it forces gun owners to give them money every time they buy a gun.

See where this is going? The government goes around creating artificial barriers to doing things. This naturally slants the playing field in favor of those with more time and money- usually established players. It doesnt NOT represent the government protecting us from corpoerations- it represents government protecting corporations from other corporations.

Speaking for votes is not the equivalent of acting in pursuit of power. You have confused the two.

So the correct solution to the robber baron problem was that the government should have lessened its regulation of said barons? Color me confused.

Of course, the obvious way to prove me wrong about all of this is to point me to someplace (anyplace!) where this has ever actually worked for any length of time.

And in any case, I’m not aware that I’ve insulted anyone here. Certainly not intentionally.

It is not asinine at all, and that is exactly what he is saying. If you are truly interested in learning and not just looking for people you can insult, read: The Iron Fist Behind the Invisible Hand by Kevin Carson.

That’s completely asinine. Are you seriously arguing that without a government, nothing like corporations would exist?

If a corporation is exploiting you, it’s because the government which enabled it has too much power.

Uhh, no, it’s because the government which enabled it has allowed the corporation to retain too much power. But by all means, do enlighten me concerning how, in Libertarian Fantasy Land(tm), the “invisible hand of the market” would prevent businesses and those with the most money from unfairly exploiting those with the least.

Also, with Feingold as president, there is no effect on the senate chairmanships, which is really the big prize in all of this. We dont want a Ted Kennedy judiciary committee chairman.

A most excellent point.

As for using government to protect individuals from corporations, it doesn’t work like that. Governments are the source of corporations’ power. If a corporation is exploiting you, it’s because the government which enabled it has too much power.

I respectfully disagree. Individual rights are far more important than corporate interests, and like it or not, the only effective way of protecting the former from abuse by the latter is through government.

And on the environmental stuff, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree. There’s simply no possible libertarian solution to problems like pollution and environmental abuse.

Further, nobody says Feingold is a libertarian. He’s a liberal Democrat with libertarian leanings. It’s an important distinction. It means he recognizes and defends individual rights, but not to the extent that he wholly ignores the greater good.

I do agree, too, that the best strategy for the Democrats is to give up on the idea of winning back the South, and to focus instead on the Great Lakes and the Mountain West. The South is too far gone into Dobsonville to be worth going after any time soon. Until the real conservatives in the South finally tire of constantly taking it up the chute from the Religious Right, it’s going to continue to be that way in the South.

Fuck that.

Also, with Feingold as president, there is no effect on the senate chairmanships, which is really the big prize in all of this. We dont want a Ted Kennedy judiciary committee chairman.