I’ve covered this already…where are we going to find the millions of Americans needed to fill these roles? The unemployment lines and welfare lines don’t have enough people.

They’d be a good place to start, though. Once we achieve full employment, maybe then we can debate whether our existing immigration laws should be relaxed to allow us to import more unskilled labor than we currently do legally (though a hell of a lot less than we currently do illegally). But first we have to get the border under control.

The incentives of American farmers would be for Mexicans to come here and thus we would be back to the system we have today.

So what? Jobs that can’t be outsourced will be filled by those here.

I’ve covered this already…where are we going to find the millions of Americans needed to fill these roles? The unemployment lines and welfare lines don’t have enough people.

We’re trying to keep people in Mexico..its the same thing.

So on your planet, if I don’t invite you to a party at my house, that’s no different than sending a bunch of goons to trap you inside yours. O-kay.

You’re a little unclear, but I assume you are saying lets outsource jobs to Mexico rather than have Mexicans come here. Thats fine and dandy except that if you are suggesting that we outsource farming you’ve got another thing coming politically.

Yeah, but it’s not as though opening the border was politically popular, either. American farmers don’t want farming outsourced because they want their jobs. But if the market determines that their jobs are not theirs to keep anyway, and it’s only a question of whether we should pay Mexicans to farm in the US vs. paying Mexicans to farm in Mexico, the latter option seems by far the more rational one.

Beyond that, many traditional illegal immigrant jobs aren’t outsource-able (i.e. construction, hospitality, service jobs, etc.)

So what? Jobs that can’t be outsourced will be filled by those here. If no one is willing to do them for the rates illegals charge now, then the market will adjust accordingly.

how so? For one, the illegal substances usually include people to guide them there, but I digress. Drugs are usually imported by the ton into this country..a wall may lower the flow of immigrants, but I doubt that its going to stop people from coming in any meaningful manner.

For one thing, there’s a huge difference between keeping people out and keeping people in,

We’re trying to keep people in Mexico..its the same thing.

If Americans and current legal immigrants didn’t want those jobs, why not leave those jobs to the people who do, in their own communities?

You’re a little unclear, but I assume you are saying lets outsource jobs to Mexico rather than have Mexicans come here. Thats fine and dandy except that if you are suggesting that we outsource farming you’ve got another thing coming politically. Beyond that, many traditional illegal immigrant jobs aren’t outsource-able (i.e. construction, hospitality, service jobs, etc.)

While we’re at it, lets seal the border to drugs…geez, it was that simple all along.

Don’t be silly. OK, I’m sorry, I might as well ask you not to be Manish. Regardless, it’s a hell of a lot easier to smuggle substantial quantities of illicit substances over the border than it is to sneak entire people over. Then again, if we made a serious effort to control the border, e.g., actually erected a physical barrier across it, we’d probably do a much better job of intercepting both.

The East Germans did so well with the Berlin Wall, its sure to be a smashing success to keep people out.

WTF are you talking about? For one thing, there’s a huge difference between keeping people out and keeping people in, so the analogy is ridiculous. For another, even if the analogy were valid, the East Germans did extremely well with the Berlin Wall, which easily expanded their state’s lifespan tenfold, at least. It’s all well and good to decry the immorality of the Berlin Wall, but to deny its effectiveness defies reason.

The H2 visa program (the program for non-skilled workers..not to be confused with H1-B which is for skilled workers) is vastly under-subscribed right now due to the onerous level of cost and bureaucracy that the EMPLOYER has to go through.

Like I said, let’s get the border under control first. Then we can debate how much unskilled labor we want to in-source rather than out-source. I for one see little reason to import jobs Americans don’t want, just so we can import more people to do those jobs Americans didn’t want in the first place. If Americans and current legal immigrants didn’t want those jobs, why not leave those jobs to the people who do, in their own communities?

While we’re at it, lets seal the border to drugs…geez, it was that simple all along. The East Germans did so well with the Berlin Wall, its sure to be a smashing success to keep people out.

while continuing to grant visas for legal immigration at roughly the rate we do now.

The H2 visa program (the program for non-skilled workers..not to be confused with H1-B which is for skilled workers) is vastly under-subscribed right now due to the onerous level of cost and bureaucracy that the EMPLOYER has to go through.

There are 12 million or so illegal aliens, 7.1 million unemployed (+1.4 million marginally attached to the labour force) and 2 million families on welfare. Not all the illegals are working as some of them are children. Many of the unemployed (like SU) have better job prospects than working on a farm. How are we going to replace these folks?

That’s easy: elect Democrats to control all three branches of government, and keep ‘em there for longer than 2 years. Then we’ll have plenty of unemployed people to replace all the illegals and then some.

Or we could try my kinder and gentler solution: don’t try too hard to kick out everyone who is here now, but DO seal up the border to all illegals, while continuing to grant visas for legal immigration at roughly the rate we do now. Then grant non-amnesty amnesty to everyone with an otherwise clean record, and crack down hard on anyone who hires, harbors or gives aid and comfort to those who remain illegal. Once we have the border under control, then we can figure out if it makes sense to let in more people than we do already, or whether it would make more sense just to accept that farming is one more industry that we’re better off outsourcing.

so that’s it. Then figure out whether it makes sense

X…I don’t follow you. If you kick out the illegals, who will work on the farms?

If so, much of what you eat got to your plate on the backs of illegal immigrants.

That’s an argument against our current policy of tolerating illegal immigration, not for it.

So let’s give them the opportunity to get green cards and pay taxes and be Americans like the rest of us. From what I gather, the new legislation has any illegal paying a fine, applying for a green card, and proving they’ve learned English, and they get it provided they pass a background check, etc.

I generally favor open immigration because it’s one of the things that made this country what it is.

What this country needed in its formative years is not what it needs today. Baby food helped make me what I am today, but that doesn’t mean I should eat the stuff now.