Comments on: Uncle Builds an AK: Part 2 http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/ Remember, I do this to entertain me... not you. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 03:00:16 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: SayUncle » Uncle Builds an AK: Part 3 http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-36432 SayUncle » Uncle Builds an AK: Part 3 Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:31:59 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-36432 [...] If you’re new to the AK Series, here’s part one, on general how to. And here’s part 2 on legal and compliance info. When we last left off, I was in the process of sanding and sawing off the forward pistol grip. I stripped the varnish, cut off the forward grip and sanded it down. I am sad to report the wood underneath all that varnish is hideously ugly. See: [...] [...] If you’re new to the AK Series, here’s part one, on general how to. And here’s part 2 on legal and compliance info. When we last left off, I was in the process of sanding and sawing off the forward pistol grip. I stripped the varnish, cut off the forward grip and sanded it down. I am sad to report the wood underneath all that varnish is hideously ugly. See: [...]

]]> By: My Quiet Life » uncle builds an AK http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35153 My Quiet Life » uncle builds an AK Tue, 08 Nov 2005 03:22:31 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35153 [...] SayUncle is running a cool series on his blog as he builds a Kalashnikov. [...] [...] SayUncle is running a cool series on his blog as he builds a Kalashnikov. [...]

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35132 SayUncle Tue, 08 Nov 2005 02:29:49 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35132 Dunno if they're stamped or anything. I have a century WASR that is supposed to be compliant but I doubt the century shop stamps all the parts. Even the courts have said: <i>with guns the citizen acts at his peril</i>. No shit. Dunno if they’re stamped or anything. I have a century WASR that is supposed to be compliant but I doubt the century shop stamps all the parts.

Even the courts have said: with guns the citizen acts at his peril.

No shit.

]]> By: Standard Mischief http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35090 Standard Mischief Mon, 07 Nov 2005 22:36:25 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35090 OK, I am taking the following from Boston's Gun Bible (revised - 2002) ISBN 1-888766-06-9 Chap. 27 “You & the BATF”. His text is italic: <i>If the rifle (i.e., receiver) was imported Was it imported (not merely made) by 30 September 1990? --- If Yes, then it's Pre-import ban and can have all the features. --- If No, was it imported by 13 September 1994? --- --- If Yes, then it is Pre-crime bill and can have all features if the USC §178.39(c) imported parts count is 10 or less. --- --- If No, then it can have one 18 USC §921(30)(B) feature (i.e, Folding/telescoping/pistol grip stock, bayonet mount, flash suppressor or threaded barrel, or grenade launcher) if the 27 USC §178.39(c) imported parts count is 10 or less.</i> (End Boston T. Party. - Start Standard Mischief.) OK, so I want to get rid of that awful thumbhole stock. I'd also like to get the cleaning rod re-attached which pretty much means I have to get a bayonet lug installed. My gun was imported after the 30sep1990 “import-ban” [still in effect] but before the 13Sep1994 crime bill {law has sunset] My understanding is that even though the crime bill (AKA assault weapons ban or AWB) has sunset, the -Fuck You- from Bush the First is still in effect. What I need to do is replace enough parts on the gun so that of the 16 magic parts that are in the assembled rifle (with a magazine in place), not more than 10 are imported. As long as that magic requirement has been met, and stays met, The gun can have all the scary evil features I want, as long as it stays a normal firearm (i.e. long enough barrel, one bang each trigger pull, etc). I can even paint it black! Now that it is after 13 September 2004, the second test “was it imported by 13 September 1994?” does not matter. The limits to the following “scary” features no longer applies: Folding/telescoping/pistol grip stock,bayonet mount,flash suppressor or threaded barrel, or grenade launcher (<b>Not realistic</b>- don't get your hopes up, you still need the special “destructive device” license from the BATFE, this just shows you that the critters making the rules are clueless) I think (in other words, the magic incantation is: “I am not a lawyer/ I am not dispensing legal advice/ Not intended to diagnose, cure, treat, or prevent any disease”) (switching to question mode) These US parts you guys and gals are buying: 1. Are they stamped US or USA? 2. Do they come with any records stating they are indeed US made parts? 3. If so, do you keep a copy “proving” that they are US made? 4. What would keep someone from taking a imported part and stamping “made in USA” on it and selling it to me? OK, I am taking the following from Boston’s Gun Bible (revised – 2002) ISBN 1-888766-06-9 Chap. 27 “You & the BATF”. His text is italic:
If the rifle (i.e., receiver) was imported
Was it imported (not merely made) by 30 September 1990?
— If Yes, then it’s Pre-import ban and can have all the features.
— If No, was it imported by 13 September 1994?
— — If Yes, then it is Pre-crime bill and can have all features if the USC §178.39(c) imported parts count is 10 or less.
— — If No, then it can have one 18 USC §921(30)(B) feature (i.e, Folding/telescoping/pistol grip stock, bayonet mount, flash suppressor or threaded barrel, or grenade launcher) if the 27 USC §178.39(c) imported parts count is 10 or less.
(End Boston T. Party. – Start Standard Mischief.)
OK, so I want to get rid of that awful thumbhole stock. I’d also like to get the cleaning rod re-attached which pretty much means I have to get a bayonet lug installed. My gun was imported after the 30sep1990 “import-ban” [still in effect] but before the 13Sep1994 crime bill {law has sunset]
My understanding is that even though the crime bill (AKA assault weapons ban or AWB) has sunset, the -Fuck You- from Bush the First is still in effect. What I need to do is replace enough parts on the gun so that of the 16 magic parts that are in the assembled rifle (with a magazine in place), not more than 10 are imported.
As long as that magic requirement has been met, and stays met, The gun can have all the scary evil features I want, as long as it stays a normal firearm (i.e. long enough barrel, one bang each trigger pull, etc). I can even paint it black!
Now that it is after 13 September 2004, the second test “was it imported by 13 September 1994?” does not matter. The limits to the following “scary” features no longer applies: Folding/telescoping/pistol grip stock,bayonet mount,flash suppressor or threaded barrel, or grenade launcher (Not realistic- don’t get your hopes up, you still need the special “destructive device” license from the BATFE, this just shows you that the critters making the rules are clueless)
I think (in other words, the magic incantation is: “I am not a lawyer/ I am not dispensing legal advice/ Not intended to diagnose, cure, treat, or prevent any disease”)
(switching to question mode)
These US parts you guys and gals are buying:
1. Are they stamped US or USA?
2. Do they come with any records stating they are indeed US made parts?
3. If so, do you keep a copy “proving” that they are US made?
4. What would keep someone from taking a imported part and stamping “made in USA” on it and selling it to me?

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35088 SayUncle Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:23:10 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35088 Wow! So you're telling me that a rifle may be legal or not depending upon which particular magazines you may use? Feh. Wow! So you’re telling me that a rifle may be legal or not depending upon which particular magazines you may use? Feh.

]]> By: Kristopher http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35087 Kristopher Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:21:56 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35087 Magazines count ... Body, follower, and floor plate make up three on the 922-r list. The flip side is that you could make your own floor-plates to get one more part if needed.... You could put a us made furniture set on a norinco thumbhole, and use US made mags on it ... or just get three more compliance parts ... a replacement trigger set from tapco will get it done. Magazines count … Body, follower, and floor plate make up three on the 922-r list.

The flip side is that you could make your own floor-plates to get one more part if needed….

You could put a us made furniture set on a norinco thumbhole, and use US made mags on it … or just get three more compliance parts … a replacement trigger set from tapco will get it done.

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35082 SayUncle Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:33:31 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35082 If it was made to comply, just make sure replacement parts are american made. Mags count in total or do the parts of the magazine count as well? somehow missed that in the pasted version. If it was made to comply, just make sure replacement parts are american made. Mags count in total or do the parts of the magazine count as well? somehow missed that in the pasted version.

]]> By: Standard Mischief http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35081 Standard Mischief Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:22:18 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35081 Thanks for your opinion. The Norinco was post-"ban". it was altered by the maker to comply with the law. That means it got a thumbhole stock,no bayonet lug, and no flash hider. I don't want to do any drive-by bayoneting, but It would be nice to have a place to attach the cleaning rod. (Normally the bayonet lug does double duty here.) Magazines count. I believe you can make a gun where it would be illegal to insert a import magazine. You have them listed above. (14) Magazine body (15) Follower (16) Floorplate. If I had only replaced three parts with US made parts, the gun could be legal if I only used Made-in-the-USA magazines (I think) Thanks for your opinion.

The Norinco was post-”ban”. it was altered by the maker to comply with the law. That means it got a thumbhole stock,no bayonet lug, and no flash hider. I don’t want to do any drive-by bayoneting, but It would be nice to have a place to attach the cleaning rod. (Normally the bayonet lug does double duty here.)

Magazines count. I believe you can make a gun where it would be illegal to insert a import magazine. You have them listed above. (14) Magazine body (15) Follower (16) Floorplate.

If I had only replaced three parts with US made parts, the gun could be legal if I only used Made-in-the-USA magazines (I think)

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35077 SayUncle Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:56:51 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35077 These are my opinions and aren't meant to be legal advice. Ask your lawyer for that: I don't think magazines count or cleaning rods. I think you'd be good to go that way. <a href="http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=93&t=69556" rel="nofollow">This guy did it</a>. I would stick with US made parts because they make the best stocks/grips, I think. Plus, if you have a Norinco, it was probably made before there was an import ban. Making your own stock would be American made too. Yes, Bush could get rid of the import ban by rescinding an executive order. These are my opinions and aren’t meant to be legal advice. Ask your lawyer for that:

I don’t think magazines count or cleaning rods. I think you’d be good to go that way. This guy did it. I would stick with US made parts because they make the best stocks/grips, I think. Plus, if you have a Norinco, it was probably made before there was an import ban.

Making your own stock would be American made too.

Yes, Bush could get rid of the import ban by rescinding an executive order.

]]> By: Standard Mischief http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35076 Standard Mischief Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:47:15 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35076 Hmmm, OK here's where I'm coming from, instead of build-it-from-scratch, I want to take this horrible thumbhole Norinco gun that I have up till now not been shooting (because of that dang thumbhole stock) and make a shooter out of it. To do that (legally) I think I need to replace that un-ergonomic thumbhole bastardization with a US made stock and pistol grip. I think that counts as two parts. Replacing the forward furniture counts as one more. Then I could get a USA made trigger group and put that in (counts as 3 parts). At that point, I've installed 6 USA parts but I have only removed 5 imported parts. I think I have a legal gun. I also can do “anything” at that point (i.e. insert a magazine composed entirely of import parts or add one of those evil meenie cleaning rod attachments) Does that sound right? I'm not, of course, looking for legal advice, merely guidance. If you can guide me to the appropriate BATFE letter, that wouid be even better. Bonus Question: I've got this slab of maple, I was thinking of making my own furniture for this gun. The maple is grown in the USA and I would make the stock here too. Do I need to do any record keeping or is it OK if I just burn “Made in the USA” in the wood with a soldering iron? Extra Special Bonus Question: Is it true that George “Free-Trade” Bush could remove the special preference to US made parts with just the stroke of a pen on an Executive Order? (TIA) Hmmm, OK here’s where I’m coming from, instead of build-it-from-scratch, I want to take this horrible thumbhole Norinco gun that I have up till now not been shooting (because of that dang thumbhole stock) and make a shooter out of it.

To do that (legally) I think I need to replace that un-ergonomic thumbhole bastardization with a US made stock and pistol grip. I think that counts as two parts. Replacing the forward furniture counts as one more. Then I could get a USA made trigger group and put that in (counts as 3 parts).

At that point, I’ve installed 6 USA parts but I have only removed 5 imported parts. I think I have a legal gun. I also can do “anything” at that point (i.e. insert a magazine composed entirely of import parts or add one of those evil meenie cleaning rod attachments)

Does that sound right? I’m not, of course, looking for legal advice, merely guidance. If you can guide me to the appropriate BATFE letter, that wouid be even better.

Bonus Question: I’ve got this slab of maple, I was thinking of making my own furniture for this gun. The maple is grown in the USA and I would make the stock here too. Do I need to do any record keeping or is it OK if I just burn “Made in the USA” in the wood with a soldering iron?

Extra Special Bonus Question: Is it true that George “Free-Trade” Bush could remove the special preference to US made parts with just the stroke of a pen on an Executive Order?

(TIA)

]]> By: Jay G http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35070 Jay G Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:24:45 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35070 Dunno 'bout the rest of y'all but I don't want to be a test case... Dunno ’bout the rest of y’all but I don’t want to be a test case…

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35064 SayUncle Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:56:31 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35064 Could be. There's disagreement regarding parts counts. Some argue that if you get a part kit and assemble a gun, you're not obligated to follow the parts count rules since you did not import a rifle but built one in the US. To be safe, I wouldn't recommend it since I know of no case where it went to court and I don't know if the ATF has issued a ruling on it. Regardless, I don't advise it. Could be. There’s disagreement regarding parts counts. Some argue that if you get a part kit and assemble a gun, you’re not obligated to follow the parts count rules since you did not import a rifle but built one in the US. To be safe, I wouldn’t recommend it since I know of no case where it went to court and I don’t know if the ATF has issued a ruling on it. Regardless, I don’t advise it.

]]> By: Standard Mischief http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35063 Standard Mischief Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:51:18 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35063 I suppose this silly parts count requirement might mean that if I totally stripped a legally imported (pre-"ban") AK clone, and then reassembled it without adding any US parts, I might be committing a felony. Any comments? I suppose this silly parts count requirement might mean that if I totally stripped a legally imported (pre-”ban”) AK clone, and then reassembled it without adding any US parts, I might be committing a felony. Any comments?

]]> By: Standard Mischief http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35062 Standard Mischief Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:46:57 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35062 ^^ I remember reading about building a AR-15 pistol, and the instructions recommended keeping proof (receipts) that stated that all the parts were new and had never been installed on a rifle. In theory, if you had installed only one screw that at one time had been installed on a rifle, instead of building a pistol, all of a sudden you had a short barrel rifle. Normally not a problem but for some reason there is the issue of a BATFE special license. The other bend-over-backward suggestion was to drill the pins on the upper and lower receiver a different size, so it could never be claimed that the upper receiver of the pistol had ever been installed on the lower receiver of a rifle. ^^ I remember reading about building a AR-15 pistol, and the instructions recommended keeping proof (receipts) that stated that all the parts were new and had never been installed on a rifle.

In theory, if you had installed only one screw that at one time had been installed on a rifle, instead of building a pistol, all of a sudden you had a short barrel rifle. Normally not a problem but for some reason there is the issue of a BATFE special license.

The other bend-over-backward suggestion was to drill the pins on the upper and lower receiver a different size, so it could never be claimed that the upper receiver of the pistol had ever been installed on the lower receiver of a rifle.

]]> By: Standard Mischief http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35058 Standard Mischief Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:38:55 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35058 So do you have to keep proof of the added US parts, or is the fact that they are stamped "made in USA" enough? Any BATF letters out there? So do you have to keep proof of the added US parts, or is the fact that they are stamped “made in USA” enough? Any BATF letters out there?

]]> By: SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35046 SayUncle Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:29:06 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35046 Only on a pistol because that makes it an Any Other Weapon. Only on a pistol because that makes it an Any Other Weapon.

]]> By: Nate http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35045 Nate Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:28:00 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35045 You can't have a forward pistol grip on a pistol? Why's that? "Sporting purposes" somehow? (I thought that was an AWB artifact, and therefore gone.) I wasn't planning on building one... but I'm still curious. You can’t have a forward pistol grip on a pistol? Why’s that? “Sporting purposes” somehow? (I thought that was an AWB artifact, and therefore gone.) I wasn’t planning on building one… but I’m still curious.

]]> By: Jay G http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35043 Jay G Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:24:22 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35043 Thanks Unc. My AK has no muzzle attachments, hence the 5 parts... Thanks Unc. My AK has no muzzle attachments, hence the 5 parts…

]]> By: SayUncle » Uncle Builds an AK: Part 1 http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/11/07/uncle_builds_an_ak_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-35032 SayUncle » Uncle Builds an AK: Part 1 Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:59:52 +0000 http://www.saysuncle.com/?p=6939#comment-35032 [...] Part 2 is here. The running series can be seen here. [...] [...] Part 2 is here. The running series can be seen here. [...]

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