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	<title>Comments on: Where the right loses me (part 2)</title>
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	<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/</link>
	<description>Remember, I do this to entertain me... not you.</description>
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		<title>By: _Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15436</link>
		<dc:creator>_Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2005 18:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15436</guid>
		<description>&quot;From a purely legalistic perspective, there’s no legal benefit conferred by marriage (custody, inheritance, medical decisionmaking, etc.) that doesn’t apply just as well to a same-sex couple as it would to an opposite-sex couple.&quot;

I think that&#039;s the point I was trying to make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;From a purely legalistic perspective, there’s no legal benefit conferred by marriage (custody, inheritance, medical decisionmaking, etc.) that doesn’t apply just as well to a same-sex couple as it would to an opposite-sex couple.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s the point I was trying to make.</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15435</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2005 17:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15435</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;As to the arguement that gay marragie will lead to polygamy. I see no reason why it wouldn’t.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Marriage is a contract between two parties, and necessarily so.  If one dies or becomes very ill, the other gets to make the decisions, inherit the property, get custody of the children, etc.  This is all possible because the order is clear: one becomes incapacitated, the other takes over.  And it all works equally well irrespective of the gender of the two involved.

But make it a relationship of three or more people, then the wheels come flying off.  Spouse A becomes incapacitated, and spouses B and C disagree over how things should be handled.  Spouse A dies, and spouse B and C now inherit the estate (assuming no will with explicit instructions).  How do you resolve this?  It&#039;s &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; more complicated, and there&#039;s no compelling reason for the state to get into such sticky messes.

Which isn&#039;t to say that a two-person marriage can&#039;t get sticky (just look at Schiavo), but the state &lt;i&gt;already&lt;/i&gt; has its nose in there.  From a purely legalistic perspective, there&#039;s no legal benefit conferred by marriage (custody, inheritance, medical decisionmaking, etc.) that doesn&#039;t apply just as well to a same-sex couple as it would to an opposite-sex couple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As to the arguement that gay marragie will lead to polygamy. I see no reason why it wouldn’t.</p></blockquote>
<p>Marriage is a contract between two parties, and necessarily so.  If one dies or becomes very ill, the other gets to make the decisions, inherit the property, get custody of the children, etc.  This is all possible because the order is clear: one becomes incapacitated, the other takes over.  And it all works equally well irrespective of the gender of the two involved.</p>
<p>But make it a relationship of three or more people, then the wheels come flying off.  Spouse A becomes incapacitated, and spouses B and C disagree over how things should be handled.  Spouse A dies, and spouse B and C now inherit the estate (assuming no will with explicit instructions).  How do you resolve this?  It&#8217;s <i>much</i> more complicated, and there&#8217;s no compelling reason for the state to get into such sticky messes.</p>
<p>Which isn&#8217;t to say that a two-person marriage can&#8217;t get sticky (just look at Schiavo), but the state <i>already</i> has its nose in there.  From a purely legalistic perspective, there&#8217;s no legal benefit conferred by marriage (custody, inheritance, medical decisionmaking, etc.) that doesn&#8217;t apply just as well to a same-sex couple as it would to an opposite-sex couple.</p>
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		<title>By: Ravenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15410</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 19:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15410</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In fact, doesn’t one of the amendments specifically say that discrimination based upon gender is illegal?&lt;/i&gt;

No.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In fact, doesn’t one of the amendments specifically say that discrimination based upon gender is illegal?</i></p>
<p>No.</p>
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		<title>By: cube</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15395</link>
		<dc:creator>cube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 14:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15395</guid>
		<description>Just to give an exmaple from the frist comment.

&quot;Yeah, I pretty much agree.
It’s a contract. The number of parties involved should be irrelevant.
And it’s a state contract, the Feds shouldn’t be involved.
And other states are bound to honor it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to give an exmaple from the frist comment.</p>
<p>&#8220;Yeah, I pretty much agree.<br />
It’s a contract. The number of parties involved should be irrelevant.<br />
And it’s a state contract, the Feds shouldn’t be involved.<br />
And other states are bound to honor it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: cube</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15394</link>
		<dc:creator>cube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 14:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15394</guid>
		<description>Uncle,

As far as the nature arugment is concerned, i think it is a poor argument because of what cowboy bob pointed out.  Animals are &#039;animals&#039; and we should be better than that.

tgirsch and uncle,
 As to the arguement that gay marragie will lead to polygamy.  I see no reason why it wouldn&#039;t.  The same arguments can be used (and probably will).  To me polygamy is just as wrong as gay marragie, but if we allow one, i see no reason why we should not allow both.  

Also if you were a morman and you say gay people getting married, I would be really upset, and I might go start my own state....errr.

As to the beastily argument.  I agree that is dumb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uncle,</p>
<p>As far as the nature arugment is concerned, i think it is a poor argument because of what cowboy bob pointed out.  Animals are &#8216;animals&#8217; and we should be better than that.</p>
<p>tgirsch and uncle,<br />
 As to the arguement that gay marragie will lead to polygamy.  I see no reason why it wouldn&#8217;t.  The same arguments can be used (and probably will).  To me polygamy is just as wrong as gay marragie, but if we allow one, i see no reason why we should not allow both.  </p>
<p>Also if you were a morman and you say gay people getting married, I would be really upset, and I might go start my own state&#8230;.errr.</p>
<p>As to the beastily argument.  I agree that is dumb.</p>
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		<title>By: _Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15393</link>
		<dc:creator>_Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 13:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15393</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see how two consenting adults entering into a property sharing contract should have any reflection of gender.

In fact, doesn&#039;t one of the amendments specifically say that discrimination based upon gender is illegal?  And isn&#039;t denying a contract application based upon the gender of the application sexual discrimination?

And my opinion that other states are required to honor a same-sex marriage is based upon the same condition that states recognize a mixed-gender marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see how two consenting adults entering into a property sharing contract should have any reflection of gender.</p>
<p>In fact, doesn&#8217;t one of the amendments specifically say that discrimination based upon gender is illegal?  And isn&#8217;t denying a contract application based upon the gender of the application sexual discrimination?</p>
<p>And my opinion that other states are required to honor a same-sex marriage is based upon the same condition that states recognize a mixed-gender marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: Cowboy Blob</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15389</link>
		<dc:creator>Cowboy Blob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 02:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15389</guid>
		<description>There are many cases in the animal world of mothers killing their own young, but we humans take a dim view of that as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many cases in the animal world of mothers killing their own young, but we humans take a dim view of that as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Ravenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15388</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 01:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15388</guid>
		<description>I have yet to hear a valid arugment for why letting gays get married harms other people.

Until I do, I support gay marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have yet to hear a valid arugment for why letting gays get married harms other people.</p>
<p>Until I do, I support gay marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15386</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 22:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15386</guid>
		<description>And nothing you said there, xrlqy, indicates marriage is a right, which was my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And nothing you said there, xrlqy, indicates marriage is a right, which was my point.</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15384</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 21:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15384</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And it&#039;s a state contract, the Feds shouldn’t be involved.  And other states are bound to honor it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Based on what?  A creative reading of &lt;a href=&quot;http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article04/&quot;&gt;Article IV, Section I,&lt;/a&gt; that exaggerates the import of the first sentence while ignoring the second altogether?

&lt;blockquote&gt;In my quick perusal of the constitutions of the State of Tennessee and the United States, I see no right to marry enumerated.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So?  The federal government is a government of enumerated powers.  The State of Tennessee is not.  The proper test at the state level is whether either constitution says the state &lt;i&gt;cannot&lt;/i&gt; get involved.  If neither constitution says anything about marriage at all, the State of Tennessee can do as it pleases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And it&#8217;s a state contract, the Feds shouldn’t be involved.  And other states are bound to honor it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Based on what?  A creative reading of <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article04/">Article IV, Section I,</a> that exaggerates the import of the first sentence while ignoring the second altogether?</p>
<blockquote><p>In my quick perusal of the constitutions of the State of Tennessee and the United States, I see no right to marry enumerated.</p></blockquote>
<p>So?  The federal government is a government of enumerated powers.  The State of Tennessee is not.  The proper test at the state level is whether either constitution says the state <i>cannot</i> get involved.  If neither constitution says anything about marriage at all, the State of Tennessee can do as it pleases.</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15381</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 17:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15381</guid>
		<description>tom, I&#039;m sure some one has but it&#039;s too stupid to even acknowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tom, I&#8217;m sure some one has but it&#8217;s too stupid to even acknowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15375</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 15:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15375</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;the legal authority to make decisions for loved ones who can’t make their own decisions&lt;/i&gt;

Hell, social conservatives don&#039;t want &lt;i&gt;heterosexual&lt;/i&gt; married couples to have that authority.  Witness the Schiavo incident.

Aside from that, I&#039;m surprised nobody brought up the &quot;gay marriage will lead to polygamy and bestiality&quot; argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the legal authority to make decisions for loved ones who can’t make their own decisions</i></p>
<p>Hell, social conservatives don&#8217;t want <i>heterosexual</i> married couples to have that authority.  Witness the Schiavo incident.</p>
<p>Aside from that, I&#8217;m surprised nobody brought up the &#8220;gay marriage will lead to polygamy and bestiality&#8221; argument.</p>
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		<title>By: _Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.saysuncle.com/2005/05/05/where_the_right_loses_me_part_2/comment-page-1/#comment-15374</link>
		<dc:creator>_Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 14:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5470#comment-15374</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I pretty much agree.
It&#039;s a contract.  Gender should be irrelevant.
And it&#039;s a state contract, the Feds shouldn&#039;t be involved.
And other states are bound to honor it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I pretty much agree.<br />
It&#8217;s a contract.  Gender should be irrelevant.<br />
And it&#8217;s a state contract, the Feds shouldn&#8217;t be involved.<br />
And other states are bound to honor it.</p>
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