Locals on Chai Vang
In a record for me, the comments to this post are out of control and that’s considering that I’ve deleted about 15 of them for some generally offensive comments. I may have to shut them down. A comment there provides more information on the Chai Vang incident than the press is giving us. It is from a resident of Rice Lake:
One is that the reason they only had one gun between a group of 20 hunters is…There was only one set of hunters in the woods actually hunting when they noticed Mr. Vang (definately more respect than I should give him) sitting in a fellow hunters’ stand. So..there was only ONE gun needed in the woods at that time. When the altercation happened with Vang and a couple of other hunters came out of the cabin, they had no reason to bring out weapons. And again…after Vang began his massacre and the others came out after recieving a call for help, they weren’t thinking anything that bad was happening out there, so they did not bring weapons. They left 2 younger hunters inside the cabin and went to find out what was going on. One of the boys was a nephew and a son of some who were getting killed in the woods. I know that one of the hunters that survived said that one of the land owner (who died) did say something to Vang after he refused to leave that wasn’t nice. But when someone isn’t listening to you and you needed the stand for your family for the days hunt and you started out trying to be nice, you tend to raise your voice a bit. And he said some profane things as well. Which isn’t shocking. But he wasn’t going to shoot at Mr. Vang. I know this because he was an upstanding member and business owner in our community. He was prideful in our tradition of hunting and excited to be hunting with his sons and nephews and friends. The son who was screaming “Help Me!! Help Me!!” as Vang chased him down and shot him 4 times in the back. The friends who were shot of the 4 wheeler 3 times each in the back as they were trying to get away, not be confrontational. One of the people on that ATV that was shot off of it and hit 3 times in the back was a woman. (sic)
It is, of course, all here-say but provides some detail (though questionable) about the cold-bloodedness involved.
December 1st, 2004 at 5:01 pm
I have been reading your comments, and although many of you have valid points, most of you do miss the point…
What happened in Wisconsin is not a matter of lack of gun control, nor a matter of reverse racism….but the fact that too many mentally unstable people legally own guns….
Although a NRA’s long-time member, gun owner and sportsman I do favor any law that will require an individual to take a psychological test prior to acquiring a gun…
A person who uses a gun against someone yelling racial spurs at him/her is not mentally stable to own or carry a weapon…
Wake up America….Too many wackos are out there!!
December 1st, 2004 at 5:04 pm
Wake up America….Too many wackos are out there!!
Yes and that is why I shouldn’t have to take and pass a test to be able to defend myself from those wackos. A person who buy guns through dealers must submit to a background check.
December 2nd, 2004 at 3:57 am
As a resident of a town approximately 40 miles from the site of this incident this hits quite close to home. This is still a shock to all of the small communities surrounding Birchwood & Hayward. All that can be said about this situation is that 9 people know what happened for sure and 6 of those people will never be able to tell the true story because Chai Vang didn’t like to be told what to do. Chai Vang shot these people because he wanted to look like a race thing and it wasn’t. Private property is exactly what it means. If he could serve in the military and go to a 2-year college what is saying that he can’t read and understand english? And as to the allegations that the hunters shot first is absolutely rediculous. Land mistaken to be public is a problem that happens quite frequently often without a problem whatsoever. A normal, concious-ridden person would not shoot a person because they were trespassing. This could have easily been a white person, a black person, anything, including Hmong. What has now been turned into a race game is absolutely rediculous. Shooting 6 people is not self-defense, it is cold blooded murder.
December 2nd, 2004 at 12:02 pm
Chai Vang was framed. The hillbillies hid the guns. Bottom line anytime anyone post anything positive about chai vang it is immediatly deleted from this forum. Even teh host of this forum is biassed. Which is sad. Now i am completly conviced chai vang is innocent. poor guy….Stupid red neck sheep humping hillbilies. go back to killing your pigs and leave the asians alone. im not asian but even i see it
December 2nd, 2004 at 12:04 pm
You know “Deliverance” was a good movie. Had Vang not shot back when he did maybe he would be buried in behind a tree stump right now and raped to death by those racist name callign hicks! You know everyone is saying what gave Vang the right to kill, If its true the white guy shot first..let me be the first in this forum to say “Who the fuck elected you Executioner to shoot a man trying to leave peacefully and incite a horrible incident you idiot inbred F*ck, you deserve what you got if you shot first, and you asshole you casued the death of 5 other people who probably didnt deserve to be shot down liek a dog like you deserved you fuckin hillbilly f*ck!!!” Im sorry if my grammer was a little bit off in that last quote, i got a little bit heated. Im sorry but there is just too much ignorance in this room. Its a scary thought that the people in this room actually have the power to cast a vote and help in the election process of our president…the leader of our supposed free world… Scott and Kevin are probably inbred hill billys and be careful guys, people do reap what they sow. For the rest of you good, compasionate, god fearing, “INTELLIGENT” people I hope this incident raises an eyebrow for you. Something has to change or im sure this will happen again. And from what i know of Hmong people they generally seem alot less nasty then the racist inbred dipship hillbilies i have encountered in the mountains. And one last time let me state the obvious…America is a melting pot…if you are not Native American you are not indigenous to the US. We are all on the same boat here…..So yes if you tell everyone to go back where they came from then the only people left in the us will be indians. Damn you guys crack me up. The level of stupidy in some of these comments amaze me. How do you people hold jobs? Well i guess somebody needs to cook my curly fries when i go to Jack n The Box. Oh well to the rest keep up the kickass comments…you guys make some very valid points…
December 2nd, 2004 at 12:05 pm
I’ve wrriten about 5 comments previouly so im going to make this one very clear no big words just some simple thoughts no ones has brought up. My thought process will be based on the assumption that most of what Chia Vang said is true. Im sorry guys But Chai Vang right or wrong, bottom line is when your in the middle of the woods confronted by numerous men who outnumber you, curse at you beligerently, and shoot to scare you if that really is as the case may be, you will react. Some men may have tucked tail and run, some less skilled men might have shot back missed and had the hunters chase him down and kill him in what they would have eventually claimed to be self defense of course. You know the more i think about it, why is it everyone assumes even if the white men shot first, that they were only shooting to scare? Is that a gurantee they were shooting “to NOT kill him”? Maybe they were just bad shots. Comon now guys logic dictates that men who surround you, curse angrily at you, then fire a shot at you as your walking away, those are acts of hostility. And the law does state that you are allowed to defend yourself with lethal force if lethal forced is being used against you and you feel you are in imminent danger of lethal bodily harm. If you look up any fire arm legal codes it will tell you if a man is shooting at you and you truly beleive he is trying to kill you and you have a gun you are allowed to shoot him back. Its not a definte the white hunter didnt shoot to kill. Hes not a proffessional marksmen in which case his shooting abilities may have not been up to par with Vangs, and when he shot to kill Vang in a rage he simply missed Vang and hit dirt. Vang may have been the more effective killer as he was trained for years in the “US” military. In any case if we are to presume that the reason Vang shot and killed is becasue he is a pure devil(evil incarnate), isnt it just as reasonable an idea and statement to say that those men tried to kill Chai Vang but were not as effective at a gun battle as he was..he was of course a trained military man. I know some of you will react badly to what i have just said but really think about it? If what Chai Vang said is true they shot at him first, he may have beleived it was a shot not close to him becausee they were just horrid shots, and better to shoot back and defend himself before more shots rained upon him from the outnumbering odds of the belligerent white men he was going to have to engage and fight? If he truly thought this then isnt it better to shoot back and defend yourself then die in vain…correct? Im sorry but this whole story and hypothesis of the sequence of actual events just seems too one sided to me. Yes the end result is one small asian man killed sixwhite men. But who is to say that one asian man was the only one in this tragic incident with the intent to kill. If the white hunters really were the ones who shot fisrt, logic would dictate that Chai Vang simply reacted as he was trained he returned fire, and disabled the enemy. Whether he used excessive force i agree is a definate possibilty but that is another subject that deserves its own seperate posting. Chai Vang was a soilder and in war soilders are taught the rules of engagnement, i know this is civilized society, but bottom line is he was shot and and he returned fire. In time of war he would have been a hero, who prevailed and achieved victory through greatly outnumbered odds. Im sorry i am white but bottom line is i have a hard time beleiving that it is a fact Chai Vangs intentions were “bad” and the white hunters were “good” simply because they are now dead. Bottom line maybe Chai was just a better shooter and more adept gun fighter then the causcasian gentlemen were. Maybe if he had not reacted the way he did he would not be here right now. If it is a possibily Chai Vang is a cold blooded murderer it is also just as rational a possiblty those white men were cold blooded murderers, both sides exchanged gun fire just one side ended up winning and one side all shot to hell and dead. Who shot first remains to be seen and i truly beleive that should be the deciding factor in whether or not Chang loses his livlyhood. The way the media is portraying this story im sorry but under any other circumstances I may have beleived the hunters, but Chia Vang isnt getting a fair shot here. And seeing how the media delivers this story proves my point further. Justice has to be blind to race and color the rules have to apply to everyone or it can not rightfully be called justice. It more like justice if your the appropriate skin color. That first shot if it is true the white hunters shot first, could have potentially been followed by a fury of gunfire leaving Vang the deceased is this story. Im sorry but if the Media and law enforcement are goign to cruicify Vang before the results of the investigation come to light then i am willing to play devils advocate here if it can bring light to another perspective i havnt heard stated yet…. if that is what you perceive me as after stating my hypothesis. The thing is everything i said is pure speculation but guess what Vang is right now being torn to pieces by the local media and local communities through pure specualtion, This is American and MR. VAng deserves the right to a fair trial and a chance to defend himself. I pray for a fair, swift and speedy trial for both parties involved god bless you. And another thing for all you racist hicks do you realized that alot of Hmongs in America today are here as a direct result of their part in aiding american in the secret war against cummunism in the Viet Nam war. They were granted Visa to America because of there aid to help fight the war for a free world, for an American cause. We really are quick to forget things when its not convenient for us to remember….
December 2nd, 2004 at 12:07 pm
First of all, it’s not a forum. It’s my personal website. The only comments I’ve deleted were comments that were offensive in nature (for example, some idiot posted a comment about vang needing a short rope and long tree, and I deleted it). If you can’t keep it civil, I will delete your comment. Period. To my knowledge, I don’t know that I deleted any of your comments. If you want your comment to stay, i suggest you stop using phrases like sheep humping hillbillies.
And I am biased, it’s my site.
December 2nd, 2004 at 12:08 pm
And one more thing Vang only saw one gun. He never said he knew all of the other white men were unarmed. In his statement he says when he was initially surrounded he only saw one gun drawnout and “Clearly”. The thing is the others could have had hand guns tucked under their belt. And the last two men he shot Vang clearly states that he did see them with firearms.
December 2nd, 2004 at 12:10 pm
ok say uncle fair enough. You right i get a little heated when i see something unjust and i shoudlnt let my personal feelings be involved in a civil conversation. For that i apologize.
December 2nd, 2004 at 12:14 pm
Its my fault i work in the legal field and sometimes in the real world i dont get to express fully how i feel without it being very personal. And in my line of work that is just not tolerated. So maybe i am expressing my view a litle bit too much, a little bit too untactfully here…My fault
December 2nd, 2004 at 3:55 pm
Some hunters got a taste of the deers’ plight. Now and then we get a glimpse of natural justice, and generally mistake it with tragedy.
December 3rd, 2004 at 12:08 am
lol! i agree.
December 3rd, 2004 at 1:08 am
Hello again….my comment is this…I am the writer of the entry in the box at the beginning of this link…The sentance outside the box states “It is, of course, all hear-say but provides some detail (though questionable)about the cold-bloodedness involved.” I just wanted to share this link with you all as to remove any questions about my integrity and my knowledge of the subject. It is front-page-slap-you-in-the-face news here in Rice Lake and surrounding areas. We have lost friends, loved ones, associates and neighbors. Along with the feeling of safety in the woods. I have also made other comments on different pages here so, I won’t repeat myself…just please follow the links… Thank you. Peace to you all.
http://www.ricelakeonline.com this link will show you the community as well as give you the local newspaper.
http://ricelakeonline.com/frame.asp?header=headline2&maintarget=../article.asp?ArticleID=7682 this link is very important to read…please do.
December 3rd, 2004 at 1:22 am
Victor, you scare me. Please read the articals I have posted links for. Maybe that will clear the hatred and racial b.s. out of your eyes and let you see what really happened out there. As for us “hillbillies” hiding the guns and framing Mr. Vang…that is a sheepload of crap. And since you seem to think that we have a lot to do with sheep here…you must believe that I know that a sheepload of crap is a whole bunch! I am going to refrain from commenting any more about your so called opinions because they are just that, opinions. Because I live here and know the way of life and knew the victims, I am going to live in the real world where I am not just basing my life on opinions and spouting off like I know what I am talking about….I DO know what I am talking about. Thank you to say uncle for having this site to get things straightened out. Thank you. Have a good holiday everyone..even you Victor.
December 3rd, 2004 at 4:32 am
Dee you amuse me. Its interesting to know that your opinions of local mentality are so much more relevant and precise then mines because you live there. You are genuis…
December 3rd, 2004 at 8:56 am
Victor, Thank you. My “opinions” are not “opinions” of local mentality…they are what I see and hear and read on a daily basis. They are the truths that I am living with daily as I walk around our town and watch the anguish that has ensued since the tragedy unfolded. The anguish in the hearts of a community, not just those who were related, but those who spent any time at all with one or more of the victims. And in a town this size (around 8,000 people) you knew or heard of each one of these people. The names are common ones in the area. I watch the benefits held for the families, I join the candlelight vigils in honor of the victims, I donate money to help them get along, I see the orange ribbons adorning the vehicals in our town, the orange ribbons adorning clothing, the orange ribbons on the trees. I see the signs in front of the businesses that lost managers and associates, I see the signs in town in support of the families. I have been living and breathing this disaster since the second it was heard about. I do not discriminate against Mr. Vang because of his race. It could have been a purple alien, a black man (of whom we have many many somali in our area), a white man or an asian and the result in our community would be the same…tragedy. I, too, hope for a fair trial for Mr. Vang…speedy and fair…and then, when all is said and done, I hope that he is able to wallow in his regret for a long, long time to come. And I would wish those same things on ANY one who did something as this…ANY color, ANY race…..Mr. Vang went nutz…it could happen to any race….too bad it happened here….
December 3rd, 2004 at 9:07 am
Dee your kin are cold blooded attempted murderers, just this time they mess with the wrong lil asian man. I wouldnt be suprised if you were one of the people who smuggled the guns away from the scene of the crime dee…god bless you
December 3rd, 2004 at 9:08 am
and actually dee your warped sense of justice scares me.
December 3rd, 2004 at 2:09 pm
sheesh…i just want to say that eventhough the websites are posted in here that stated everything that was being said does not mean that the tradegy is at all true…lies can be told….chai vang could be lying…so could the victims…just becus they were known to “good people” does not mean that they cant do nothing harmful to someone else…dee…..even though chai vang had threaten his wife, he does have a heart and is a loving and strong man within his family just like the other victims who are among their loved ones……so u cant say that the victims couldnt have done something bad to chai vang….
December 3rd, 2004 at 3:09 pm
None of us knows what happened that day in the woods except for three people who were involved and lived to talk about it, and I’m sure the incident will remain very clear to each of them.
I’m from Rice Lake. I know all of the men (and the woman) who were shot and shot at. I know the families of the victims, I attended school with many of them, and I have hunted on occasion with some of their relatives. I had to witness news crews “getting their headlines” and taping the funerals of the victims in our small town.
Each one of the victims were well liked and respected in the community, and if any one of them physically made an attempt to harm the person trespassing on their private property, I can assure you that they would not have missed. Unless, they were shaken and unprepared to do it in the first place. None of the men involved had the vindictiveness to commit a murder. How do I know that? Because I knew them. I grew up with some of them. They were genuinely nice people and an entire community has come together to mourn their deaths.
I notice from articles in the newspaper that Mr. Vang was also respected in the Hmong community. He was a shaman, and had a family who stated that he was good man. There may be some validity to the confrontation that occurred in the woods that day, and I can tell you that if someone was hunting on my property without permission, I would tell them to leave as well, for my own safety as well as the safety of my hunting party. If they didn’t listen, I’d tell them with more emphasis until they heard and left.
When hunting parties form, it is for reasons of sportsmanship as well as safety. You know and trust the people you hunt with, and that helps to eliminate hunting accidents. You buy private property to keep other people off of it! Usually when you hear of a confrontation, the worst case scenario leads to a fight or some verbal sparring. Regardless of his race, or whether he was a nice guy, Vang killed 6 people, and attempted to kill two others. He took the scope off his gun so he could hit moving targets, which indicates that he knew they would run when he started shooting. Vang admitted that he saw several of them run away without firearms, and that he only saw one gun to begin with…which was in the possession of the person he shot first. He had the choice to stop at any time, but did not. This was not a military situation, and it’s not a racial situation. It’s a matter of knowing right from wrong. The people who are writing the newspaper articles are making assumptions that it’s a racially related because there was more than one race involved. And I see that some of you above have taken that ball and run with it.
What is going through someone’s mind as they chase a scared and unarmed 20 year old kid down and shoot him in the back four times?? That he might bend down and scoop up a rock? Pretty hard to do when you’re running for your life.
Obviously there’s a lot of speculation. Hopefully the truth will come out in the trial. What is unfortunate is that there are families and friends that lost someone they love. On both sides. In no way will this incident ever be justifiable!
I don’t think the purpose of this site was to insult individuals for where they live, or where they came from, (by the way, Victor, Rice Lake is not “the mountains”, nor are the people uneducated, and if we met you under normal circumstances you’d see that we have all our teeth and presence of mind, and in general, we’re all pretty down to earth. The kind of people who wouldn’t think someone would shoot us if we got in an argument. And yes, our perception of the northern mentality would tend to be more accurate if we came into contact with it on a daily basis. I’ve also lived in the Twin Cities, and have met more unstable people living in a big city than I ever did back home. That just goes to show how narrow minded some individuals in this country may be. Also, one more thing. If you’re going to berate someone’s intelligence because of where they live, try to do it using a paragraph that doesn’t contain profanity in every sentence. It leaves your defense of the shooter with little credibility when you resort to the same type of name calling that supposedly caused the whole situation to begin with. Does that justify one of us “rednecks” to pull a gun on you? I didn’t think so.
I’ll be patiently awaiting your response since I see you have a need for the last word.)
December 3rd, 2004 at 3:45 pm
Jill, YOU ARE AWESOME!!!! THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!!! You said more of what I had been trying to get across. (((HUGS))) to you! If you are the Jill I am thinking of, I am going to hug you in person. Thank you again. And Victor, what exactly is my “warped sense of justice” anyway?? Seeing that a MAN (because that is what he is no matter his color, race, religion or any other prejudgmental avenues that people seem to jump towards as a defense) A MAN who killed 6 people and wounded 2 (no matter the REASON of provocation) sees justice behind the bars of a prison cell for the remainder of his life? The people in whose lives he took don’t even get that benefit. He shattered the lives of a lot of people. And I don’t think it is in any way warped to wish that justice is served and he pay for his crimes. He admitted to killing these people. He admitted to hunting them down and making sure they were not standing anymore. And with his ADMITION there should be no more debate over the fact that he should go to prison. That…is…JUSTICE. Not warped justice…just JUSTICE. Plain and simple. Thank you. Thank you again Jill….Peace be with you. Happy Holidays.
December 3rd, 2004 at 3:51 pm
Angel, I am sorry I forgot to respond to your comment. I know that Chai Vang is probably a good person. I know that he has had some issues in the past with trespassing and assault. But, you are right, he was probably a wonderful family member…I never said he wasn’t. But his value as a wonderful husband and family member slipped right out of the picture when he chose to lose the self-control he should have had to just walk away and leave the private property that he was on. All of the goodness he bestowed once upon a time came to a screetching hault that day in the woods….And I never did say that the other hunters’ actions were perfect. I wasn’t there to know the EXACT happenings. Peace to you as well…..
December 3rd, 2004 at 4:09 pm
I heard many side of the story and to me as an asian as well as lao. Mr. VAng has no right shoot all those people unless they all had weapons and even if they did all had weapons all he need to do is get alway not chase the people down and kill them. This guy thinks he on top of the laws. The type of person he is give us asina a bad name.
Name calling is name calling I had people Call me Name u dont see me out there kill them. it just plain wrong You alway have to put yourself into other people shoes and think if i get kill what will my family do? it loud and clear that Man is A MURDER and for that life for a life Sorry if i am too harsh but people like that need to put away and never to return. One less person to worry about in the future..
kelly
December 4th, 2004 at 2:34 am
What the hell is going on in America today? One man’s action is not the a communities respondsibility. No one should have to defend themselves of all these hatred remarks. Let’s face it, i could careless if he was Hmong or any other race. Just because he’s Hmong does not mean that the entire community was respondsible for him. I’m sick of these people defending and apologizing for what happended. Don’t get me wrong, i feel for the victims families. For all you racist idiots, can’t you see past this guy’s skin color and stop making it a racist issue. What would you do if he was a white man? Obviously, everyone thinks their opinion counts in this issue, but the truth is he’s just an idiot who committed a crime against 8 others. For those, who thinks this guy is a hero, well i hope you realize that all you are doing is attributing to the hatred that exist today. Having pride and supporting your fellow member is not about praising a criminal. Why are we all so blind? Regardless of how the trial goes, lets be humane about the whole ordeal. Chai Vang does not represent the Hmong community, nor does he care about how others feel. Personally, no one should be accountable or have to suffer as a consequence for Chai Vang’s alleged crime. Let’s face it, if any thing happens, it’s not because of Chai Vang, it’s because of our own desire to committ hate crimes against other ethnic groups. You know what? This issue is getting old, time for me to deal with my own problems. I pray that god will make the right decision and that everyone will stop playing god themselves.
December 4th, 2004 at 2:36 am
Jill…could it be that your comments left Victor speechless? I hope it finally sunk in what we were trying to explain…..Take Care.
December 4th, 2004 at 3:16 am
Thanks Jill, your comments are very respected and enjoyed as a fellow resident of NW Wisconsin. As to Victor’s comments, I really wish we could engage in a civil discussion of this matter which has become out of hand as it is, instead of a region-based name-calling war which apparently it has become. I’ve never seen a sheep in Wisconsin, let alone had relations with one so i’m not sure as to what he’s talking about but that’s besides the point. Anyways, back to the topic at hand… If you believe that shooting 8 people and killing six of them is justifiable in any way you are a very sick individual. Don’t you think that shooting one of them would get your point across well enough? This was not a matter of race, and I would be just as offended if it would have been a white man killing 6 Hmong individuals. If it turns out that Mr. Vang was completely acting in self-defense and not in an offensive matter at all, I will willingly apologize for my comments in this public forum. But until then to each his own opinion.
December 4th, 2004 at 3:28 am
Do all Hmong hunters trespass to private property? Do they hunt without knowing the hunting regulations? Do they all go on a shooting spree and kill everyone in site? Are they the only hunters to commit such idiotic crimes? And are they doing this on purpose? Is Chai Vang the only Hmong person? Is his action, the cause of Hmong peoples problem? Let me guess, only you who enjoy stereotyping, will probably answer “yes” to all the questions posted. Now, aren’t we so proud of ourselves. Lets get one thing straight, not every Hmong hunter is quite that bad. Notice, i said not that “bad” simply because no one is perfect. Unless, of course, you deserves so much better. Oh, by the way, are all Hmong hunters that crazy? Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that with all the bad apples out there, a couple of them are still good. Maybe, it’s time for you to get to know us better. You see, some of us really do take the time to work hard and get an education so that our lives can be just like any others. We also, can read and understand the concept of “tresspassing”. Oh, did you mean keep out of your land? Sorry, just had to do it. Look, i’m not trying to make fun of any one. The thing is this, even if one person is the cause of such problems, does not mean that you should look at others the same way. Some of us are doing the right thing by respecting and understanding that hunting is priveldge not to be taken for granted. Our prayers are with the victims families and friends. Not only are we good citizens, but we’re also teaching our kids to do whats right for the hunting community and to save what’s left of the enviroment. Now, don’t tell me Hmong people are destroying the enviroment, too? Personally, i try to do everything i can to make a hunting trip safe and enjoyable for all hunters. I’m just a little tired of people making such false assumptions. Hey, guess what? I saw a white guy, an actual white guy tresspassing on one of my friend’s private property this past hunting season. I guess he was trying to help us out by pushing the deer towards my other buddy, who was positioned about 500 yards away? Anyway, i should of called the game warden, but figure he was lost and decided not to. You know, confronting tresspasser can some times get ugly. Look guys and gals, all hunters of all ages, like it or not, i’m here to hunt and play by the rules. Just because Chai Vang did this does not mean that i will give up my right to hunt. I pay taxes, too! Oh yeah, my dad also fought in the vietnam war and he was on the American side. You know what’s really, really, sad? Deer meat is not even all that great to die for. Let’s face it everyone is a racist in their own mind, right or wrong? Wrong!!!! Things don’t have to be this way. I love u, man!
December 4th, 2004 at 5:34 am
Let me start off by saying that I do commend you for your level of intellect Jill I can tell you are a person of possibly above par intelligence..I may be wrong. And my opinions and observations are not about getting the last word. In all honestly I think thats a little childish to say Jill. You shoudlnt lash out emotionally in a civil converasation when somebody says something you dont like, but that is my humble opinion…moving on….Secondly Jill think about it?…How many times have you heard these words repeated “he seemed like such a nice man, i never would have guessed he would do such a horrible thing”…in all honesty you know you always have a few peopel who say that on national televisions about a serial killer after he has been caught and he lives right next door to you. Im not sayign i dont think highly of your judgement the fact that i dont is irrelevant, but the fact is it is statiscally proven the majority of child molestors are close family friends. So I semi respect your opinon of your neighbors and deceased friends Jill but your opinions do not hold alot of wieght in my book as fact that these are innocent men becasue they were semminly good people. If asked you asked the right peopel Chai Vang was a man of God, righteousneous and a loving family man, who dedicated his life to the proper upbringing of his family. In all honesty Jill these forums are usually a waste of time in my opinion but not always so. I love to see what the general public has to say. It gives great insight into human nature and waht we as a society beleive is justice. All the rhetoric in this room and verbal diarhhea doesnt really amount up to much. If my opionions dont hold much valdidity becasue of course jsut like you I was not there and they are just opinions and specualtion. If Mr. Vang is convicted on any charges of murder you have to have proof, heresay will not do. Unless you can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Mr. Vang shot first the prosecutions first line of defense is over. Mr Vang pleads manslaughter with mitigating cirmcustances hes pretty much free. IE-he was under extreme stress from the whole confrontation/ shooting and temporary insanity took over. This is a very reasonalbe defense, if you have any experience in the legal arena i assume you would agree without bias. I do feel sory for the pain of the lost loved ones but at this point with people like you running around on your pulpits Jill and painting a picture of Mr Vang as a Devil and the hunters as puritans, thats jsut too extrmeme for me i dont buy it. I i beleive besides the locals alot of the general population in the US agrees. Its great that you have a thourough mourning process for your deaceased..I happen to know that asians also have a similar mourning process that at the least cis comporable to ours. Bottom line you are the reason i would like to defend mr VAng. You may not know it and honestly i dont think you see it clearly, but you are clouded by your anger, your judgement is tainted by grief. All natural human emotions but logic dictates not enough to condemn a man to life in jail or death without knowing all the points. I dont think you see it yourself Jill so i wont say you are a bad person just not someone thinking straight or in a coherant state of mind. Take a second and step back analyze the situation and ask yourself what happens when an outsider raisies questions? The locals immediatly spout off at the mouth and defend the hunters as angelic, and that just bullshiet. Jill let he who is not with sin cast the first stone. If you are a god fearing person you knwo that anybody is capable of sin, good citizen, loving father, dedicated community leader or not. Mr Vang is being condemned for saying he wanted to kill his wife, i dont condone what he said, but has there ever been in a time in you life you said something you didnt mean? Yes he is not without sin, but bottom line he was still a good father, so on a few occasions he saids a few words out of anger. These words do not equate to this man being the devil incarnate. Its about giving Mr. Vang a chance of defending himself when hes is not here to do it himself. Jill you must remember just because you as the majoroity beleive something is true and right its is not necessarialy always so. At one time blacks being slaves were considered to be practically Chrisitan because at the time they were seen as savages, that was what the USA as a majority beleived at the time, today after a civil war the majority does not beleive so and it wouold be unheard of and unlwaful to keep anything/anybody as a slave. I hope you get what im leading at. Maybe in this room I stand alone, but i will not back down from logic. And you have to admit alot of what you and your kin/locals have to say does come down to heresay and what you know of the peopel that were involved in this tragedy, you beleive them becasue you bleive there hold more credibility botoom line. You are biassed that is a fact. One again bottom line is no man is without sin Jill. And whether or not these men were or were not cold blooded attempted murderers, shooting whether to kill, or simply scare irrelevant, bottom line is that it was not a chirstian act, and they suffered the consequences for their action if they shot first. I will rebutt with pure blind logic and only logic. Not only opinions because if we talk only opinions all i here from the locals is opionions of the deceased, of how they couldnt have done such a heinous act… but you have no factual evidience to back up your claim. Specualation is not enough reason to satiate your bloodlust Jill. We have been doing some research down here and it has come to our attention that Mr Vang was thought of by his community as a good righteous god fearing family man. To his family… a courageous loving father and husband. Abused wives and children do not rally together for there father if he trully was an evil man, a man with no heart, a cold blooded murderer. So lets please keep and open mind to this. Unless you are god Jill, you too do have sin in your heart, every person sins. And im sorry if personally you dont beleive your friends/deceased hunters could have shot first but once again that is your opinoin. And yes The details to whether this incident was at all racially motivated or ignited are still vague and open to debate. If it is true that they called him names like gook and chink, im sorry but those type of words do consitutute racism in any legal arena you would like discuss this in. Sorry Jill but those are racist remarks. And yes Jill I do beleive it is about protecting your own with you, think about it if it was 6 hmong men who died would you still be here… so passionatly defending the hmongs honor with such abosolution…making sure no deflammation of characted is inflicted on those dead hmong. In all honesty i would have to assume you would not. So heres the thing lets just look at the facts becuase if we let the locals have there way with MR Vang, peopel like jil and Dee wouold probably kidnapp him and hang him from a tree in their back yard. Get the hell off you high horse Jill about how us “outsiders” dont know whats really going on how how pure of heart those men were. Mr Vangs story does incriminate him to a certain extent, he purposly admits to shooting man in the back and chasing him dow, thus incriminating himself. If he was a smarter conniving man he would have said nothing. At the very least he would not have admitted to chaising these men down. Theres not a hell of alot of holes in his story. The hunters on the other hand countless discrepeciens and alot of ill logically claimed events. Why would a man leaving peacefully turn and fire at a group of hunters as they claimed. Doesnt it make more sense a group of hunters would fire at a trespasser leaving to scare him off there land for good? In any case i would defend Mr. Vangs case soley on principle and to combat the bigotry i see throwin into this room by you Jill. People like you are the reason i am in my chosen proffesion. God bless the families of the deceased and Chai Vang getting a fair trial. And I guess god bless you too Jill… you will probably need it.
December 4th, 2004 at 5:39 am
I beleive you havnt looked at every angle of this incident Jill. And im sorry if you are offended at the fact that I do beleive with absolution the wool can be pulled over the eyes of even a “GENUIS” like yourself Jill. Millions of parents let supposedly good and trusted people care for their children only to have them betray the trust and have your child molested and scarred for life. I do beleive you may be one of them Jill. People are not always as they may seem. God bless you Jill and i hope enlightment reaches even you someday and open up that narrow mind of yours..the world will be a better place..
December 4th, 2004 at 5:44 am
Jill i hope you dont still beleive in slavery, just so your informed keeping slaves is now illegal. I didnt want you to get in trouble…
December 4th, 2004 at 9:18 am
Dee and Jill your verbal diarrhea, and twisted views on justice do not impress me. Rhetoric and using big words does nothing if there is no logical content in your argument. You have yet to enlighten me with your any premise to your responses. Stick in your small town with the small town mob mentality. Your opinions will not flourish living anywhere else. And “I CAN ASSURE YOU” I have seen trained marksmen miss many times during shooting range practice. Everyone has an off day. So let me be the first to assure you Jill that even the most skilled marksmen can miss. I hope you can understand my analogy if not just slow down and sound out the words, reading gets easier over time girls. Just keep trying. You have proven my point, you have confirmed without a doubt in my mind that you are simply not capable of comprehending any views outside of your own little inbred twisted logic. Another thing I commend you on Jill is not picking law as an proffesion, you made a very wise decision. Unless your good at making copies and picking up phones stick with shoveling cow sh*t. Its really not your fault some are born to lead, and some are born to shovel cow poop any work is admirable, just your line of work is generally a little less respectable. But hey at least your not a prostitute…well I dont want to assume anything and offend you so i take that back. Well whatever your occupation im sure your really good at it. God bless you gurls…
December 4th, 2004 at 10:29 am
Victor, your ignorance presents itself in every single text. I commend you.
December 4th, 2004 at 10:54 am
Victor, your response was soooo long, I almost fell asleep reading it this morning.
In every response, I see redneck, or hilbillies, or a farming reference, or prostitution and now lynching???
It appears that you are the one that fails to “see” your own bias. I have made no negative reference towards anyone’s race. Only your ignorance. That’s not bias, it’s fact backed up by all your previous entries.
At no time did I ever state that anyone was pure of heart, that is something achieved by only children and saints. But shame on you for making a reference to our children being molested. You’re on a tangent.
If you would have read the police reports, there were two scenarios, the first of which Vang stated that the confrontation resulted in his gun being taken, the hunting party shot by one of their own, and then sending him on his merry way, “framed” by the hunting party. Then some of the real story came out. You know Victor, I don’t care what led up to it. It happened. People were killed, and if you would ditch some of your “lawyer mentality” and stop throwing insults, maybe you would learn something.
It just happens that I knew those people…and if they were 6 hmong as you so stated, and if I grew up with them under the same circumstances, you bet I would be in here defending them because they were good people. Again, it is NOT about RACE!!
I am quite educated thank you, and I have an executive position in a big city, and I have someone who makes copies for me and answers the phone…no, not a slave, Victor, they’re called secretaries. And my “views” are accepted here, where white is the minority, and my black, hmong, and hispanic friends can tell you the same.
Your verbal vomit is getting tiresome. It is not people like me and Dee that are the reason for you being in your profession, it is people like You and Vang. With your one sided views, it appears that the profession chose you, not the other way around.
You would have done well defending Mafia Constituents in the 30’s-50’s. People who could overlook the slaughter and defend the killer because they were paid to regardless of circumstance. Very Commendable.
I don’t have rage toward the situation, only compassion for the families. Look in a dictionary if you need to know what compassion is. It’s feeling sorry for someone and wanting to make the hurt go away.
It’s not bloodlust to wish the whole situation had never happened.
You made a comment about being in the legal world and the real world…you got that right…two completely different entities.
Again,and I’ll repeat it just like you do…you are defending the very same thing you repeatedly spew in each of your entries…racism, predjudice and bias. First it was sheep and hillbillies, then the occasional farm reference, and then prostitution, slavery, and lynching???!!!
Read up on your history Victor, Slavery was in the “South”. Wisconsin is in the “North”, between Minnesota and Michigan and under Canada if you need some help.
Also, as the saying goes, the only thing lower than a prostitute is a lawyer- Hope you’re paid well for your lack of conscience.
December 4th, 2004 at 11:01 am
One more thing Victor…and then I’m done with you. It appears that our genetics “up north” must be very exceptional if both Dee and I are geniuses as you state. And no, to respond to your projected comment, we are not “related” in any way, shape, or form and neither are our relatives. You’re so easy to read.
December 4th, 2004 at 11:45 am
Jill….you are awesome. Victor, all I can do is laugh at your comments. Because I see you on a merry-go-round picking and choosing things to spout off about. “You should’nt lash out emotionally in a civil conversation when somebody says something you dont like, but that is my humble opinion…” What exactly is it that you have been doing? Obviously, you have a certain amount of emotion flowing in your comments because you keep calling us names and saying these derogatory remarks to us and about us. If you had no emotion flowing you wouldn’t feel the need to do so. You keep missing our point. Our point is not a racial one. The whole point of my first initial blog was to help clear up some of the gray areas that maybe not being from this area and hearing the on going news about it leaves. I wanted to let all of you know, good or bad, what was truly going on in this case. It was not to make our hunters look like saints and Vang look like the devil incarnate. Our hunters admitted that there were some unkind words shed. AFTER Mr. Vang refused to leave. Had Mr. Vang said hey fellas, I’m lost can you point me out to the road so I can get my bearings. I don’t think this would have ever happened. He chose to stay in a tree stand that was needed for someone else on private property. When asked to leave, he balked. He too said unkindnesses…It was not just a one sided affair. And it was stated in the reports that it was NOT our men who fired first. I am not clouded by grief as you stated before. As I said, all I was trying to do here is let the rest of the country concerned know more of the facts based on court publications that I had recieved. Not sit here in judgement like “God” and spout back to characters like you who obviously think that just because they own a law degree they are 12 steps above everyone else. Including those who might actually know more because it is top news here. I do not in any way claim to know many legal terms and issues…I do not wish to. But it does worry me that a lawyer-type such as yourself could be so free with the name calling and slander that you have subjected Jill and I to. At no point have we berated you as you have us. Lawyers, in my opinion, are good, upstanding people who leave their biases and prejudices at the door when they become a representative of the people. At least that is how Lawyers are here in the Northcountry. I know this because my good friend is the D.A. of this county. I could never see her belittling people for speaking their minds or giving facts or even opinions. And she would NEVER resort to name calling or comments such as “inbred” and calling people prostitutes that you don’t even know just because they are on a blog site to help straighten a story… Jill, I hope that you will stick around and blog now and then. Your comments are wonderful and enlightening. And I enjoy reading them. Take care.
December 4th, 2004 at 12:24 pm
Hey Victor…Remember this…. “You shoudlnt lash out emotionally in a civil converasation when somebody says something you dont like, but that is my humble opinion…” You keep playing ring around the rosie. You say one thing then another that is the opposite and then you say something else and then do another….you keep tripping over your own tongue. “Im sorry if my grammer was a little bit off in that last quote, i got a little bit heated.” This was a comment you used before the first quote I put up there. Then you say this.. “You right i get a little heated when i see something unjust and i shoudlnt let my personal feelings be involved in a civil conversation. For that i apologize.” and then this “Its my fault i work in the legal field and sometimes in the real world i dont get to express fully how i feel without it being very personal. And in my line of work that is just not tolerated. So maybe i am expressing my view a litle bit too much, a little bit too untactfully here…My fault” You apologize and then you write a semi-tactful and insightful piece and then resort back to “Dee your kin are cold blooded attempted murderers, just this time they mess with the wrong lil asian man. I wouldnt be suprised if you were one of the people who smuggled the guns away from the scene of the crime dee…god bless you” You slander my integrity by insinuating that my family is horrible because of where we live and comments I have made…Shame on you. And this comment that you made about Jill and I… ” hope you can understand my analogy if not just slow down and sound out the words, reading gets easier over time girls. Just keep trying. You have proven my point, you have confirmed without a doubt in my mind that you are simply not capable of comprehending any views outside of your own little inbred twisted logic.” I am a teacher at an elementary school here. My mind is clearly open. As is my heart to hundreds of children. Some of the children in my care I have also had to help emotionally from the result of this tragedy. Some who lost Uncles and Cousins and Family friends…along with the security of the hunting tradition. How can you feel good about yourself after using comments such as “inbred twisted logic?” I don’t know how you can feel good about yourself about 98.9% of the things you wrote. I read maybe 2 of your many outlashings that made me think you knew what you were talking about…the rest seemed like you were an angry, sorrowful person who felt the need to berate and belittle fellow human beings for having either more knowledge than you about the subject, or knowledge about the subject that you didn’t want to hear so that you could keep on your racial soapbox. I have many friends and neighbors of many different ethnic decents. I teach children of MANY ethnic cultures. And yes, if the hunters killed were Hmong by a white man…I would feel the same inside. This has nothing to do with race, in my mind. It has everything to do with bringing justice to a MAN, a human being MAN, who no matter what the provocation, COLDLY took the lives of 6 people and attempted to take the lives of 2 more. He left children without fathers, he left fathers without daughters, mothers without sons….he shattered families…he shot ALL 8 people in the BACK! That is not my opinion, Victor, that is FACT….Coronor, doctor, autopsy FACT. Each one was shot from behind, including the survivors. The 20 year old boy was shot 4 times in the back from 15 yards away. 2 persons were shot off their ATV’s as they were trying to get the wounded out. The woman killed was shot 3 times in the back off the ATV as she and a family friend (who was also shot off the same ATV 3 times in the back) were going to help her father who was wounded but survived. The only thing sick and twisted here Victor, is Chai Vangs rampage in the woods, along with your berating comments. It doesn’t matter that Chai Vang is asian. THAT is not the point here….the point here IS the killing spree he went on in the woods. NO MATTER the provocation. As a militarily trained individual, he should have been trained in self-control. White, black, indian OR ASIAN….it just so happened that he was asian. Big deal. His blood is still as red as the blood he spilled in the woods that day…his race has nothing to do with what he did.
December 4th, 2004 at 2:05 pm
Dee-
Hopefully nobody is trashy and immature enough to mess with my email, but there are all sorts out there..so I guess I take the risk, since it would be nice to see you again.
jillsuzanne01@hotmail.com
I look forward to hearing from you.
December 4th, 2004 at 7:00 pm
I just find it funny that the American media is finally talking about Hmong people; too bad it has to be about a wack job that slaughtered 6 people. I pray that this massacre does not sterotype Hmong people as welfare lovin’, wife beatin’, killers… because we are all not. We were once soilders for an American army that left us behind, why does the media not bring that up??? Why do they only call us immigrants and not tell everyone about our struggles and sacrafices to get to the United States.
December 5th, 2004 at 12:00 am
Hmong means free. All our lives, we have been a suppressed group of people. Hopefully, America doesn’t become one of those suppressors–considering what we have done for them in Vietnam. It’s weird to say that when we, the Hmong, enter Arlington cemetary, all we see is a tiny plaque of gratification. As a second generation Hmong, I believe that we deserve more recognition than that tiny plaque. Anyhow, people like my father and grandfather view that tiny plaque as something greater, something that means freedom! What we have done in the secret war entitles our right to be here, to be a part of America. For example, I hear stories from the elders and they tell me what the Hmong soldiers did in the secret war. They say, six to ten unarmed or untrained Hmong men would get together and would rather risk their lives to save one American soldier than to leave him behind to be slaughtered by the veit con. Regarding this incident, I can’t really give an opinion because I don’t know what really happened. And I’m sure that you all don’t either. Hopefully, justice will be served accordingly…maybe it’ll happen here, maybe it won’t . But folks, I know that it will when judgement day comes. He is the alpha and the omega and ALL will come before Him. All these “as a christian” comments tend to forget that God is the ultimate judge and that only He can condemn anyone. Let’s not point fingers. Again, I hope that this incident won’t discriminate and stereotype the Hmong. Please America, don’t be like the others; you are so much more!
Peace be unto all this holiday season.
December 5th, 2004 at 12:43 am
To Jamea and hmong american, Bless your hearts and thanks be to you and your families and nationality for helping us back then. I am sorry that there isn’t more to acknowledge what your people went through. Truth be told, I also did not know many of these things. Thank you for enlightening me so I can contribute a small piece of help in my square inch of the world by researching and sharing the information with my daughters and the children I come in contact with. I would like to say something…There are Hmong in our area who are sharing in our grief as a community. Going to the candlelight vigils and prayer services in honor of what happened. Wearing Orange ribbons as the rest of us are…They are not being outcast of the community because of what a member of their ethnicity has done. That is just a rediculous thought. I have been trying to get across to everyone that in this city it IS NOT a racial issue as it is being made out to be. We are all a peace loving community trying to help each other out as best we can…all of us, of all ethnic backgrounds. Jamea and hmong american, thank you for your comments…they were so very much appreciated as are you in OUR country. Yours AND mine. Thank you….
God Bless You both and your families and may your holiday be one of great joy.
December 5th, 2004 at 2:50 am
Dee & Jill, thank you. It’s people like you that have a heart and have compassion for people. Keep wearin your orange ribbons, and hopefully this all will heal with time. As to Victor, thank you. You open up the other side of this discussion and show us that there may be another side to this story. However, my only wish for you is that you act in a little more mature of a manner. When people stop pointing fingers and start learning more facts we will all be able to put this behind us.
December 5th, 2004 at 2:53 am
funny thing i just found while perusing the past posts….
“Some hunters got a taste of the deers’ plight. Now and then we get a glimpse of natural justice, and generally mistake it with tragedy.
Comment by Pandu das — December 02, 2004 @ 3:55 pm”
Really people? Maybe the hunters got a taste of how the deer feels? I don’t know what nationality you are from whoever wrote this, but you’re not making them look very good. That’s just sick.
December 5th, 2004 at 3:04 am
Last week’s column about the six hunters killed in Wisconsin brought a lot of e-mails and telephone calls from black hunters in Michigan. A Hmong immigrant was charged with the shootings, and the black hunters didn’t condone them. But they said they had been subjected to the same racist slurs and threats that might have triggered the Asian man’s rampage.
I don’t doubt those stories because I have been with white hunters who made racist comments when we saw black hunters in the fields. What really amazes me is how white hunters born and raised in northern Michigan, where they grew up with almost no contact with black people, are often as racist as any Ku Klux Klan member born and raised in the black belts of Mississippi or Alabama.
It was interesting that most of the black callers thought I was automatically accepting the word of the surviving white hunters, who said there was no reason for the killings and denied that anyone on their side made racial slurs. The truth is I have no idea what happened other than what I’ve learned by reading the accounts of the incident and talking to people who probably don’t know much more than I do.
And while I don’t want to seem like a bleeding-heart liberal apologist for bad acts by the racially oppressed, I have learned enough about Hmong-white relations across this country in the past week that I would give 6-1 that one of the white hunters did say something nasty, and this time he said it to the wrong guy.
Chai Vang, the 36-year-old Laotian immigrant charged with killing six people and wounding two more in what began as a trespassing dispute, comes from a culture with a long tradition of hunting but no tradition of game laws, bag limits and formal hunting seasons as they are understood by Americans.
That lack of understanding has created resentment among some hunters, who say the Asians are notorious poachers and game violators and often trash rural areas with litter and garbage. Chai Vang once was ticketed by a Minnesota game warden for a fishing violation, taking 93 crappies above the legal limit.
The Hmong are here because they were armed and trained by us to fight on the American side during the Vietnam War. They have a long tradition as fighters, and their courage was legendary, and sometimes so was their savagery. When we decided to bug out, so did many of the Hmong.
Police in Wisconsin said Vang admitted the shootings, but they still don’t understand why he climbed down from the tree stand where he was trespassing, methodically removed the telescopic sight from his SKS rifle and shot at the other hunters until the 20-shot clip was empty.
Several black hunters in Michigan said the police need look no further than the racist epithets that Vang said the white hunters unleashed on him when they found him on their land. He also claimed that the white hunters were the first to shoot at him, something the two survivors denied.
It might turn out that Vang was an isolated nutcase. With more than 186,000 Hmong in the U.S. as of the 2000 census, and about 40,000 in Wisconsin and Minnesota, there is as much potential for violence perpetuated by a few deranged or evil people among the Hmong as among any other group. But the more I read about the tension between the Hmong community and its white neighbors in Minnesota and Wisconsin, the more I understand the feelings of the black hunters who called.
Several black hunters said they had been in situations through the years where white hunters leveled guns at them or even fired shots nearby.
“I was rabbit hunting with a black friend near Newaygo a few years ago when we met a group of six white guys who were rabbit hunting, too,” said one black man, who, like the others, asked that his name not be used. “Three of them started on us right away, asking what we were doing in their hunting place, and why didn’t we stay in Detroit where we belonged.
“The other three white guys didn’t say anything, just stood there. One of the loudmouths told us that we had better leave if we knew what was good for us. We were on public land, and I was so mad I was about ready to make a stand. But my friend is a lot cooler head, and he said that it wasn’t worth it and we should just go. So we left, and as we walked back to the car, I could hear three loudmouths laughing and calling us every nasty name you can think of and saying how we better never come back if we knew what was good for us. I wasn’t ready to go kill them all because of what they said, but can you imagine how I felt?”
If white and black Americans still feel those tensions after living side-by-side for nearly 400 years, how do we adjust to a people as exotic as the Hmong?
One problem is that many Third World people have such a tough time surviving day-to-day that they haven’t had the luxury of developing a strong conservation ethic. A few years ago in San Francisco, police found Hmong with handmade bows and arrows hunting squirrels, marmots and other furry critters year-round in Golden Gate Park. When they were ticketed, the Hmong couldn’t understand why anyone would deny them such a bounty.
Though there is real and sometimes justified resentment from white hunters for what they see as unethical hunting practices by the Hmong, you only need to talk to a Wisconsin or Minnesota hunter for a few minutes before the criticisms change from hunting activities to social issues like polygamy and marrying girls at 13 and 14, practices many whites think are common among the Asian immigrants.
And you only need to talk to black hunters in Michigan for the same amount of time to hear stories about confrontations with whites that had the same potential for violence that we saw in Wisconsin. This one should be a lesson to every hunter.
December 5th, 2004 at 3:06 am
Ok one more thing and i’m done.
If someone calls me a cracker or whitey or pasty or ghosty or white trash can i shoot them? Ponder that thought.
December 5th, 2004 at 3:07 am
Hmmm, let me see if I can share my thoughts and perhaps meet everyone half way. I am an American (proud to be one). I had my son post an earlier message; hoping that we all explore both side and really try to understand this killing situation. Unfortunately he blew up in anger after reading a few posts and I believe, he was mislead by the media’s speculation and those who knew what happen (even though they did not take place at the event as it unfolded).
I would like someone to respond to this post and give reason(s) to why you think Mr. Vang did what he did and not just point out the fact that he’s a foreigner and he had killed people (we already know that). If you really want to speculate, then ask yourself why Mr. Vang started shooting? Now you and I know that Mr. Vang’s outburst can’t be because of the “name calling”. Instead, seek the truth to why would anyone pull a trigger and end someone’s life. I am not defending Mr. Vang nor am I defending the landowners but I can tell you for sure that it takes alot for most hunters (I’ve been hunting for 10 years) to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. I realized that 6 Americans lost their lives and I don’t know if they were all innocent themselves (Mr. Vang said they shot at him first when he started walking away) because there were no other witnesses around besides the people that were related or friends with the landowners. Obviously, they will all side with the landowners and could have hidden the truth. Unfortunately for Mr. Vang, he was his only aliby. Now if you are too naive to explore the truth don’t respond.
I also don’t want people to unfairly judge or label a whole race for one person’s action. Of course what Mr. Vang did is terrible and he should be punished for his crime but the more I read people’s comments, the more I feel that people don’t want to know the truth. They’re just angry and hate a “foreigner” for killing Americans and want him dead or punished. Not only that but they want his family punished and killed as well. Most people’s reactions are based on the fact that this guy is not “white”, even though he’s been living in the U.S. legally for over 20 years. If he was a white man who killed other white Americans, there wouldn’t be so much hatred towards this man or his race other than the people directly related to the deceased. People would focus more on why this happened. Jeffrey Dahmer, Calumbine killing, Oklahoma City bombing, other serial rapist, murderes, and child molesters (most are white people) are not hated as much as this man. Most of these people’s crimes were calculated, planned and carried on for years. Only their actions are hated. Some people are even fascinated as to why these people commited their crimes but Mr. Vang, being a foreigner does not get the same treatment. If we assume that Mr. Vang (being Asian) represents the whole Asian race, is it fair to say that all those other killers and criminals who are white, represent all the white people in America also?
December 5th, 2004 at 8:29 am
I would like to point out a couple of things:
1) Mr. Vang knew he was trespassing. Why? It’s against the law to leave a tree stand on public land.
2) It is possible that this is not the first time Mr. Vang has murdered someone. A hunter was shot in the back and killed near Nielsville in 2001. Three asian men were seen leaving the area in a vehicle that is the same type and color that Mr. Vang owned in 2001. Mr. Vang also hunted in Wisconsin with two companions that year. One of Mr. Vang’s relatives said there were 2 others with him this year as well. Several similarities there.
3) Mr. Vang at first told the police that one of the hunters took his rifle and shot all the others. So much for Mr. Vang’s honesty.
I do think Mr. Vang is a cold-blooded killer. However, that is where it ends with me. I don’t extend any ill will to the Hmong community based upon any one individual’s actions. Unfortunately, there are always those who will make group judgments based on race. I sincerely hope that it ends with Mr. Vang’s trial. It would be a much greater tradgedy if anyone decides to “get even”.
I’m saying this a hunter and a concerned citizen who enjoys almost every aspect of the outdoors.
God Bless,
JB
December 5th, 2004 at 9:00 am
What Mr. Vang did was make a stand. If he was shot at first he did what any self respecting MAN would do. He did the right thing and prevented himself from being shot to death, and taken away from his family. There are no victims in this incident only participants. The white men lost this time, Mr Vang prevailed as the stronger gunsmen. Mr Vang was a proud soilder for the US army and i respect him as of right now, after reading all the ridiculous remarks about how with absolution the white hunters cold not have shot first. Bigotry does exist in Winsconsin. The only compassion I feel is for Mr. Vangs family who now must survive and endure without a father….